Temp. Importing a Foriegn Reg. Mbike into Thailand

[KTMphil]

[FONT=Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]For those entering Thailand with 1968 Road Regulation International Driving Permits & need a Thai temporary tourist driving license, a good documentation from a German couple on the procedure:


[/FONT]http://losduesen.ch/thai-temporary-driving-license/

 

[blackwolf]

Myanmar was never on my radar. I thought they had too many problems with militants there. Weren't some police killed there recently? Is Myanmar any different than the Chaing Mai area?
I know China doesn't recognize the IDP. But many have ridden without spending the time getting a temporary license. I am a little concerned about what may happen at provincial check points.

Are you the same "Lone Rider" that's on ADVrider? Latin America Rider Rally?

Myanmar is quite different from Chiang Mai, although parts of Shan state, especially near the border with Thailand look broadly similar and certainly the people are similar - the Shan or Thai Yai (Tai Yai) are of a similar ethnicity and speak a similar language to northern Thai. The rest of Myanmar is quite different and looks/feels nothing like Thailand.

Myanmar is quite a safe country in general, the southern and eastern parts are now experiencing peace for the most part and have been that way for the past 3-5 years, for the first time in decades. whereas parts of the north (in Shan and Kachin states) are unfortunately experiencing a resurgence in violence. However, the government is unlikely to permit a foreigner (whether a traveler nor an expat) to enter an area that is considered dangerous.

Militants were involved in an attack up in Muse in Shan State back in November, which is the main border crossing with China, where 90% of all in and outbound overland trade (and nearly 100% of legal China-Myanmar trade) passes through. I've been to Muse twice, but it's unlikely you would be allowed to go there now and since the border crossing is not an international checkpoint (though there has been talk of upgrading it since 2013) aside from requiring a permit to cross the border in either direction (which is unlikely to be granted at this time), if crossing in a foreign registered car or motorcycle, you'd need guides on both the Myanmar and Chinese sides and a hefty deposit for your vehicle given to Chinese customs (this is normally arranged by the travel agency you arrange your trip through). Anyway, as you are planning on renting locally in China this information probably doesn't apply to you.

Provincial checkpoints in China are probably only an issue between some provincial borders - for example between Yunnan and Guangxi, where they checked my Chinese licence once (heading into Guangxi, but they didn't stop us heading back to Yunnan). Between Guangxi and Guangdong for instance, there are no checkpoints but to err on the side of caution I'd advise making sure you have a recognized licence. Within a province or city, the local traffic police are normally quite friendly and easygoing but I have also been asked for my licence (verbally only without being asked to see it) in southern Yunnan near Jinghong (there is a checkpoint there northbound only) and those guys tend to be stricter than the police you find within the cities, though they are generally more interested in contraband (mainly drugs) than licences but having said that you don't want to take any risks, it's not like in Thailand where if you don't hold a licence the police say "mai pen rai" and fine you 200 Baht and then you're on your way.

 

[blackwolf]

Thanks for your help. Great information. I have the 1949 IDP. Is that good enough for Thai, Cam, Viet, and Laos?
I guess I should rent a bike in Hanoi and ride. Fly to Chiang Mai and rent/ride. I know it seems like cheating. But flying would reduce border concerns. Fly to Phnom Penh and rent/ride.
I will probably fly to Kunming the end of March. My flight home is from Beijing on April 15.

The 1949 IDP is good for Thailand and Laos, and reportedly now Vietnam accepts it too (only within the past 2 years or so, previously only Vietnamese licences were accepted). Cambodia officially recognizes the IDP but in practice the police are known to use it as an excuse to extract bribes by claiming that only Cambodian licences are accepted for driving there. You could easily arrange a local Cambodian licence but unlike a few years ago where you could pay extra and obtain your licence within 3-5 days for some reason the process has now been extended to a month, which is not much good for a tourist. You do get a temporary paper licence to use in the meantime before you receive your proper photocard licence, but unless you were planning an extended stay or re-entering Cambodia again after a few weeks I wouldn't bother and just drive on your IDP. If you get stopped you can probably get away with a US$1-3 fine (be sure to bargain and don't get suckered for paying more than about US$3 if riding a motorcycle).

 

[KTMphil]

Lots of foreign vehicle overlanders now looking for options around Thailand with the new mandatory Thai tour company, guide supervision.


Some are looking to land cargo their foreign vehicle across Thailand.

The new bridge at Xien Kok, Laos into Myanmar, currently isnt an international crossing, many hoping it will be, which would mean you could by-pass Thailand.


Laos myanmar crossing1 by Triangle Golden 007, on Flickr


Map crop from the new Laos printed map:

http://www.rideasia.net/motorcycle-forum/threads/8671-The-best-up-to-date-Laos-printed-map-available

 

[Doogle]

Myanmar is quite different from Chiang Mai, although parts of Shan state, especially near the border with Thailand look broadly similar and certainly the people are similar - the Shan or Thai Yai (Tai Yai) are of a similar ethnicity and speak a similar language to northern Thai. The rest of Myanmar is quite different and looks/feels nothing like Thailand.
Anyway, as you are planning on renting locally in China this information probably doesn't apply to you.

Provincial checkpoints in China are probably only an issue between some provincial borders - for example between Yunnan and Guangxi, where they checked my Chinese licence once (heading into Guangxi, but they didn't stop us heading back to Yunnan). Between Guangxi and Guangdong for instance, there are no checkpoints but to err on the side of caution I'd advise making sure you have a recognized licence. Within a province or city, the local traffic police are normally quite friendly and easygoing but I have also been asked for my licence (verbally only without being asked to see it) in southern Yunnan near Jinghong (there is a checkpoint there northbound only) and those guys tend to be stricter than the police you find within the cities, though they are generally more interested in contraband (mainly drugs) than licences but having said that you don't want to take any risks, it's not like in Thailand where if you don't hold a licence the police say "mai pen rai" and fine you 200 Baht and then you're on your way.

Blackwolf, you and this forum have been so helpful. Thanks for taking the time to respond. I am going to look into Myanmar. Since my trip has nothing set in stone, I might look at a couple days in Myanmar. I know I don't have enough time. Buy if it looks good, I can skip a few days somewhere else. My wife and I will be in Thailand and Vietnam for 19 days before I start renting motorcycles. That starts March 4th, when she fly's back to LA.
I am making a list of places check points might be a problem in China-and will try to evade/avoid. Again, I have no set route. I have a list of places I'd like to see. But that can change at the end of any day.

I want to rent a bike in Phnom Penh and ride to the Siem Reap area. If a few bribes are required, it's small money compared to the value of my limited time. Having ridden through Central America, I learned how to play the bribe game.

 

[blackwolf]

Blackwolf, you and this forum have been so helpful. Thanks for taking the time to respond. I am going to look into Myanmar. Since my trip has nothing set in stone, I might look at a couple days in Myanmar. I know I don't have enough time. Buy if it looks good, I can skip a few days somewhere else. My wife and I will be in Thailand and Vietnam for 19 days before I start renting motorcycles. That starts March 4th, when she fly's back to LA.
I am making a list of places check points might be a problem in China-and will try to evade/avoid. Again, I have no set route. I have a list of places I'd like to see. But that can change at the end of any day.

I want to rent a bike in Phnom Penh and ride to the Siem Reap area. If a few bribes are required, it's small money compared to the value of my limited time. Having ridden through Central America, I learned how to play the bribe game.

No worries. For the most part, as long as you don't drive against the flow of traffic, turn left or right in violation of a sign prohibiting such turns, wear a helmet etc. the police in Cambodia probably won't have a reason to stop you at all, so I wouldn't worry too much about it. Anyway, as you say, you know the drill regarding bribes so even if you do get stopped, all the police will want from you is a little "tea money", they earn so little anyway and that extra US$1 or US$2 goes a long way towards supplementing their income.

In Myanmar, you can find rental bikes in most tourist cities except Yangon, where they are banned (with the exception of outlying suburbs). You will be able to find rental bikes in such cities/towns as Myeik, Dawei/Maungmagan beach, Mawlamyine (Moulmein), Hpa-an, Bago, Mandalay, Pyin Oo Lwin, Hsipaw, Lashio, Kengtung, Tachilek, Pathein, Chaungtha and Ngwesaung beaches and others. With limited time it might be worthwhile considering flying into and out of Mandalay, renting a bike there and heading up the Shan plateau, taking care not to cross into restricted territory. Mandalay to Lashio and/or southern Shan state (Inle-Taunggyi-Kalaw) are great places for riding. Take care on the switchbacks between Pyin Oo Lwin and Hsipaw though, those pesky China bound watermelon trucks don't take any prisoners when going up or down the mountain.

 

[blackwolf]

I am re-posting this since when I tried to edit my previous post and clicked the "back" key my post was mysteriously deleted.

I don't see how transiting Myanmar directly for Laos or vice versa will solve any problems even once the bridge opens (if it ever opens to foreigners).

Myanmar has always insisted on a tour with guide to transit the country and an additional permit is required to transit the Kengtung to Taunggyi road in either direction which is otherwise closed to foreigners. There is no indication as to when this road will open to foreigners without a permit.

Go-Myanmar. Com offers transit of the Taunggyi-Kengtung road for Us $990 which includes a mandatory car with driver. This price is more than 10 times the cost of a one way flight ticket between the two cities.

The most important consideration is how much a Thai tour with mandatory guide will cost compared to a Myanmar tour.

 

[KTMphil]

Thai DLT getting really strict now. This Toyota Vigo got dis-allowed yesterday as it "resembled" a camper van.


vigo by Triangle Golden 007, on Flickr

 

[Lone Rider]

Now having second thoughts about a tent on the back of my truck eventhough my truck is Thai registered - by the way what you show is a not a Toyota Vigo but a Chevrolet Colorado or something similar.

 

[CraigBKK]

Now having second thoughts about a tent on the back of my truck eventhough my truck is Thai registered - by the way what you show is a not a Toyota Vigo but a Chevrolet Colorado or something similar.

Long way from Brazil too!

 

[blackwolf]

Now having second thoughts about a tent on the back of my truck eventhough my truck is Thai registered - by the way what you show is a not a Toyota Vigo but a Chevrolet Colorado or something similar.

There's a ton of modified locally registered pickups in Thailand, as long as the DLT allows such modifications (certainly tents and canopies are fine) you should be OK. The DLT law on foreign entry has nothing to do with local laws. For example, while foreign registered caravans, campervans and motorhomes are banned from entering Thailand (can not apply for a permit), locally registered ones are road legal (I have seen a few) as are Malaysian, Lao and Singaporean ones though I suspect Singapore doesn't have any caravans or campervans since they ban them from entering their country due to the small size of the country and lack of parking facilities etc. likely don't allow local registrations either. Also, I have yet to see any Lao registered motorhomes mainly because they are very expensive and very few Lao have the means to purchase one, not to mention they are kind of impractical to drive around the narrow and winding Lao roads.

 

[KTMphil]

The 2 summaries from Thai DLT of the new foreign vehicle entry requirements in English

You can download both in the links below:


View attachment new law 30 dec 17.pdf


View attachment English_Summary_of_Regulation_on_Foreign-registered_Vehicle.pdf

 

[bill]

The 2 summaries from Thai DLT of the new foreign vehicle entry requirements in English

You can download both in the links below:


View attachment 50844


View attachment 50843

Going by the info in those downloads, it seems the rules have not changed for Cambodian ("local") registered vehicles entering Thailand.

“Local vehicle” means vehicles and motorcycles, registered in any country sharing a common border with Thailand, that regularly enter or exit Thailand via a border Customs House for business purposes such as to purchase consumption goods, to seek medical treatment and education and so on. A local vehicle must travel inside the Kingdom only within the prescribed areas and must observe the criteria stipulated by the Department of Land Transport........

.....The notification shall not apply to the following types of vehicles:
(1) Vehicles imported under the cooperation between the Thai government and the government of that country.
(2) Vehicles of the country with existing agreement on land transportation with Thailand such as the Federation of Malaysia, the Republic of Singapore, and Lao PDR.
(3) Local vehicles.

and from the summary

Exempted from this regulation:
- Vehicle used for Thai-Foreign Government Collaboration
- Locally frequent vehicles under local customs jurisdiction
- Vehicles registered in Lao, Malaysia and Singapore

I guess it was always the case that Cambodian vehicles entering Thailand were officially restricted to the province of entry/local customs jurisdiction. However, in practice, that restriction was rarely enforced and we could go wherever we liked.
Question is, how strictly will it be enforced from now ?

 

[KTMphil]

Bill

This relates to Cambodian commercial business that have a business license:

"that regularly enter or exit Thailand via a border Customs House for business purposes "

Going by the info in those downloads, it seems the rules have not changed for Cambodian ("local") registered vehicles entering Thailand.

"Local vehicle" means vehicles and motorcycles, registered in any country sharing a common border with Thailand, that regularly enter or exit Thailand via a border Customs House for business purposes such as to purchase consumption goods, to seek medical treatment and education and so on. A local vehicle must travel inside the Kingdom only within the prescribed areas and must observe the criteria stipulated by the Department of Land Transport........

.....The notification shall not apply to the following types of vehicles:
(1) Vehicles imported under the cooperation between the Thai government and the government of that country.
(2) Vehicles of the country with existing agreement on land transportation with Thailand such as the Federation of Malaysia, the Republic of Singapore, and Lao PDR.
(3) Local vehicles.

and from the summary

Exempted from this regulation:
- Vehicle used for Thai-Foreign Government Collaboration
- Locally frequent vehicles under local customs jurisdiction
- Vehicles registered in Lao, Malaysia and Singapore

I guess it was always the case that Cambodian vehicles entering Thailand were officially restricted to the province of entry/local customs jurisdiction. However, in practice, that restriction was rarely enforced and we could go wherever we liked.
Question is, how strictly will it be enforced from now ?

 

[blackwolf]

Going by the info in those downloads, it seems the rules have not changed for Cambodian ("local") registered vehicles entering Thailand.

"Local vehicle" means vehicles and motorcycles, registered in any country sharing a common border with Thailand, that regularly enter or exit Thailand via a border Customs House for business purposes such as to purchase consumption goods, to seek medical treatment and education and so on. A local vehicle must travel inside the Kingdom only within the prescribed areas and must observe the criteria stipulated by the Department of Land Transport........

.....The notification shall not apply to the following types of vehicles:
(1) Vehicles imported under the cooperation between the Thai government and the government of that country.
(2) Vehicles of the country with existing agreement on land transportation with Thailand such as the Federation of Malaysia, the Republic of Singapore, and Lao PDR.
(3) Local vehicles.

and from the summary

Exempted from this regulation:
- Vehicle used for Thai-Foreign Government Collaboration
- Locally frequent vehicles under local customs jurisdiction
- Vehicles registered in Lao, Malaysia and Singapore

I guess it was always the case that Cambodian vehicles entering Thailand were officially restricted to the province of entry/local customs jurisdiction. However, in practice, that restriction was rarely enforced and we could go wherever we liked.
Question is, how strictly will it be enforced from now ?

Still not enforced much. However, they most likely need to return through the same border customs house as they entered, which is the same regulation that applies to Thai vehicles entering Cambodia, even though that's not enforced much either.

Last week I saw 1 Cambodian SUV driving towards Chonburi/Bangkok in Ban Beung, Chonburi province.

Another Cambodian Hilux VIGO was driving along the coastal scenic road in Chantaburi province. If this vehicle was allowed to enter via one of the Chantaburi crossings (most likely Ban Pakkard as Ban Laem generally doesn't allow vehicles across further than the market) then it didn't break the rules. However, if it came from Koh Kong, then it did.

Saw a couple of Cambodian vehicles in Trat city (this is allowed anyway). Also saw a Cambodian 100cc scooter heading towards Trat (also allowed under both the old and new regulations).

Back in December, saw a Cambodian motorcycle (big bike) driving north between Mae Sot and Mae Sariang, together with a Thai big bike. Didn't see the rider, but suspect it was an expat based in Cambodia. Maybe he had a permit, though probably he didn't.

When Cambodia finally signs an agreement with Thailand covering private vehicles, this ambiguity should end. In the meantime, it's a huge pain getting a Thai vehicle into Cambodia anywhere other than at Ban Had Lek/Koh Kong and Chong Chom/O'Smach. Yet my understanding is that Cambodian vehicles have been allowed to enter Thailand at Aranyaprathet (opposite Poipet) and then proceeded from there to Bangkok (now they are probably being told, can't leave Sa Kaew). In the other direction, it was nearly impossible without doing a runner or getting a permit. That's plain unfair. More reciprocity is needed and I hope Cambodia will now be pressured into allowing Thai vehicles in freely at every border checkpoint (and for that matter, Lao and Vietnamese vehicles across their respective borders)-Vietnam and Laos have also complained about how they let in the Cambodians freely but in the reverse direction it's not as easy for their vehicles to enter.

 

[blackwolf]

Bill. What I would do if I were you is agree to enter and exit at the same border crossing. Only use Koh Kong or O'Smach. Other crossings may not let you out or into Thailand (or you won't be allowed to travel very far). When I went to Cambodia last year, I flouted the "rules" by driving outside of Koh Kong province to Sihanoukville and via Kampot to Phnom Penh. I also exited at Koh Kong. Cambodian customs hold onto the Thai customs paperwork (usually not the conveyance form though) and if you leave at another checkpoint you have to declare the papers lost. I've never done that, and I like the Trat crossing anyway, if driving from Bangkok to Phnom Penh (or vice versa) the roads are better even if the distance is longer.

Does Cambodia issue any paperwork for Cambodian vehicles? I've never seen anything.

 

[bill]

Bill. What I would do if I were you is agree to enter and exit at the same border crossing. Only use Koh Kong or O'Smach. Other crossings may not let you out or into Thailand (or you won't be allowed to travel very far). When I went to Cambodia last year, I flouted the "rules" by driving outside of Koh Kong province to Sihanoukville and via Kampot to Phnom Penh. I also exited at Koh Kong. Cambodian customs hold onto the Thai customs paperwork (usually not the conveyance form though) and if you leave at another checkpoint you have to declare the papers lost. I've never done that, and I like the Trat crossing anyway, if driving from Bangkok to Phnom Penh (or vice versa) the roads are better even if the distance is longer.

Does Cambodia issue any paperwork for Cambodian vehicles? I've never seen anything.

BW
Coming from Sihanoukville, I prefer entry and exit at Koh Kong too. Last time (Jan 2016) they asked if I was exiting at KK but didnt ask where in Thailand I was going.
As of Dec 2016, I heard that Cambo registered vehicles were still entering Thailand at KK/Had Lek and getting temp import papers plus insurance.

Earlier this month I went to Laos thru the crossing Nth of Stung Treng.
Cambo customs gave me a temp export paper which cost $10 (tea money). On exiting Laos back to Cambo, Laos customs wanted to see the Cambo export paper and stamp it.
I'm told Thai vehicles cannot enter Cambo at that crossing.

As of Jan 2016, I've never received temp export papers from Cambo customs at Koh Kong, which is surprising they're not onto that tea money scam.

I note those new rules for entering Thailand come into effect 60 days after they appeared in the Government Gazette. What date does that work out to, anyone know ?

 

[blackwolf]

BW
Coming from Sihanoukville, I prefer entry and exit at Koh Kong too. Last time (Jan 2016) they asked if I was exiting at KK but didnt ask where in Thailand I was going.
As of Dec 2016, I heard that Cambo registered vehicles were still entering Thailand at KK/Had Lek and getting temp import papers plus insurance.

Earlier this month I went to Laos thru the crossing Nth of Stung Treng.
Cambo customs gave me a temp export paper which cost $10 (tea money). On exiting Laos back to Cambo, Laos customs wanted to see the Cambo export paper and stamp it.
I'm told Thai vehicles cannot enter Cambo at that crossing.

As of Jan 2016, I've never received temp export papers from Cambo customs at Koh Kong, which is surprising they're onto that tea money scam.

I note those new rules for entering Thailand come into effect 60 days after they appeared in the Government Gazette. What date does that work out to, anyone know ?

Normally, the Laos/Cambodian checkpoint is problematic with allowing entry to foreign vehicles (only entering Cambodia). Even Lao registrations have had trouble here in the past (according to a friend who runs a rental car business in Laos). Reasons for refusal included not allowing foreigners (non-Lao citizens) to drive Lao registrations into Cambodia, no Cambodian driver's licence, no permit from Phnom Penh etc. and in other cases permission was granted for travel no further than Stung Treng.
You are right that Thai vehicles generally can't enter here, though there have been exceptions. It's much better to leave Cambodia this way than to enter, as Laos has no problem allowing entry to Thai, Vietnamese or other registrations in addition to Cambodian and of course local Lao plates.

The rules have been in effect since June 27, 2016. These rules were originally proposed in late 2015 (or possibly earlier), went through a couple of drafts and based on the final draft of March 30? I think, were finally announced on April 28, 2016 in the Royal Gazette. 60 days after that was June 27, 2016.

Later in the year, some changes were announced (originally it was postulated that the rules would be eased slightly) but actually they only reinforced the old rules and more recently (December 23, 2016 I believe) new rules to enter into force after the end of February will make entry into Thailand even more stringent by requiring a guide and lead vehicle. The details of this have already been given by KTMphil (see his posts on this thread).

 

[KTMphil]

Departed from India on a 30,000 km tour. Had no idea permits or guides were mandatory for Thailand. Now stuck on the Myanmar side (Mywaddy) of the Mae Sot border for 2 weeks.

He got the Indian Embassy involved, who called Thai DLT & us, didn't make any difference, will still be 15 days to get the permit issued and then an agent can bring him through Thailand with his flags flying.



16810834_10155901554448345_293275787_o by Triangle Golden 007, on Flickr

 

[blackwolf]

Departed from India on a 30,000 km tour. Had no idea permits or guides were mandatory for Thailand. Now stuck on the Myanmar side (Mywaddy) of the Mae Sot border for 2 weeks.

He got the Indian Embassy involved, who called Thai DLT & us, didn't make any difference, will still be 15 days to get the permit issued and then an agent can bring him through Thailand with his flags flying.



16810834_10155901554448345_293275787_o by Triangle Golden 007, on Flickr

I'm heading to Myawady again soon, maybe I'll still see him while I'm there!

 

[KTMphil]

The first ever Thailand entry by a foreign vehicle under the new Thai laws happened today, where supervision is needed by a licensed Thai tour company.

First time things like this are always a worry but all went fine, border agents were aware of what was needed to qualify.


first entry by Triangle Golden 007, on Flickr





International driving license, Road Regulation 1968, not recognized by Thailand, so Thai temporary tourist driving license needed in the province of entry. Before you go to Thai DLT to get your Thai temporary tourist driving license, you need to get a health certificate from a Thai clinic or Thai hospital. Below at the hospital getting the health check/ certificate.



doctor by Triangle Golden 007, on Flickr

 

[KTMphil]

Even if you have a carnet, insist at the Sadao, Thailand Customs issue you a temporary import for your vehicle, on entry into Thailand. For whatever reason, today our agents had to argue for 4 hours that it was needed even if the foreign vehicle had a carnet, they did not want to issue one. You might not be able to exit Thailand at Mae Sot (Myanmar border) without the temporary import, some have been sent back to Sadao (Malaysia border) to get it. Eventually all done and inside Thailand legal, with permit and agent. (Beautiful vehicle too)

 

[blackwolf]

Haven't been down to Malaysia from Thailand in over 10 years so can't recall the exact procedure, but plan on a trip there soon.

Have heard that they are a bit strange with issuing the temporary import/export forms on the Thai side for outbound Thai cars/bikes and similarly for Malaysian ones entering the country. Correct me if I'm wrong, but Thai cars/motorcycles heading out to Malaysia only need a translation of their number plate in the form of a sticker (front and back for cars and only a rear sticker for motorcycles), + the blue book for cars or green book for motorcycles and translation letter + Malaysian insurance, which is issued alongside the so-called "international circulation certificate".

Provided you have the number plate stickers (black background with white lettering) and your blue/green book, you simply proceed to Thai immigration and customs doesn't issue the temporary export documents like they do at all other land borders (with Myanmar, Laos and Cambodia). On the Malaysian side they don't need to look at anything other than your passport and they don't issue any documents for your temporary import except the international circulation certificate mentioned.

Is this correct?

Of course they want to make sure you have valid Malaysian insurance. However, when I last drove my Thai car to Malaysia over 13 years ago, I got the number plate stickers done at the border (took more than an hour for some reason) and didn't get Malaysian insurance until I was stopped at a checkpoint 5km south of the border and turned back.

Does anyone know if you can show up at Sadao at 9 or 10pm and purchase Malaysian insurance at some office before the border and then cross before the border closes at 11pm? Or do you have to purchase Malaysian insurance on the Malaysian side?

Given how relaxed they seem to be at this border and that it's the busiest border crossing Thailand shares with a neighboring country, it would be strange if insurance agents weren't open during the entire opening times of the border, but I could be wrong hence why I'd like some confirmation.

 

[KTMphil]

This might be quite important for overlanders headed to Thailand, as it could get you stuck at the border for 30 days:


There's a guy called Marvin Wen who, with a copy of a Thai permit from another tour company, used the permit copy to enter Thailand, ducked the Thai tour guide at the border and rode off into Thailand. Apparently has given the Thai tour company a huge headache doing this.


He's around posting everywhere, that its a lie and a Thai tour guide isnt needed. Apparently screwed the agent out of half the agreed fees too.

If you're reading his stuff, maybe call Thai DLT and check for yourself (+66 2271 8409) and they will confirm it is needed 100% to be legal.


Doesn't seem very smart and moderators are letting him post the bad information.

 

[Captain_Slash]

Haven't been down to Malaysia from Thailand in over 10 years so can't recall the exact procedure, but plan on a trip there soon.

Have heard that they are a bit strange with issuing the temporary import/export forms on the Thai side for outbound Thai cars/bikes and similarly for Malaysian ones entering the country. Correct me if I'm wrong, but Thai cars/motorcycles heading out to Malaysia only need a translation of their number plate in the form of a sticker (front and back for cars and only a rear sticker for motorcycles), + the blue book for cars or green book for motorcycles and translation letter + Malaysian insurance, which is issued alongside the so-called "international circulation certificate".

Provided you have the number plate stickers (black background with white lettering) and your blue/green book, you simply proceed to Thai immigration and customs doesn't issue the temporary export documents like they do at all other land borders (with Myanmar, Laos and Cambodia). On the Malaysian side they don't need to look at anything other than your passport and they don't issue any documents for your temporary import except the international circulation certificate mentioned.

Is this correct?

Of course they want to make sure you have valid Malaysian insurance. However, when I last drove my Thai car to Malaysia over 13 years ago, I got the number plate stickers done at the border (took more than an hour for some reason) and didn't get Malaysian insurance until I was stopped at a checkpoint 5km south of the border and turned back.

Does anyone know if you can show up at Sadao at 9 or 10pm and purchase Malaysian insurance at some office before the border and then cross before the border closes at 11pm? Or do you have to purchase Malaysian insurance on the Malaysian side?

Given how relaxed they seem to be at this border and that it's the busiest border crossing Thailand shares with a neighboring country, it would be strange if insurance agents weren't open during the entire opening times of the border, but I could be wrong hence why I'd like some confirmation.

That is how it has always been for me, I have always crossed over at Satun, the Wang Kalian/Khun Dok crossing and you can get the insurance at the border on the Thai side

 

[joko hurricanemax]

That is how it has always been for me, I have always crossed over at Satun, the Wang Kalian/Khun Dok crossing and you can get the insurance at the border on the Thai side

Hello Capt. You have always been the local expert here. We, the locals, all appreciate that too :-) Thank you... And yes, I agree Wang Kelian is a nice border crossing with an interesting ride too.

Blackwolf, I seriously doubt the local (both sides) insurance agent/shop are open after 6pm. BUT you can try at Sadao/Danok and if they are closed, mai pen rai, Danok is a town full of activities. You can always stay a night (USD20-30 gets you a very decent hotel) and come down south at dawn.

 

[blackwolf]

Hello Capt. You have always been the local expert here. We, the locals, all appreciate that too :-) Thank you... And yes, I agree Wang Kelian is a nice border crossing with an interesting ride too.

Blackwolf, I seriously doubt the local (both sides) insurance agent/shop are open after 6pm. BUT you can try at Sadao/Danok and if they are closed, mai pen rai, Danok is a town full of activities. You can always stay a night (USD20-30 gets you a very decent hotel) and come down south at dawn.

Thanks for that info. I would prefer to cross the same day rather than linger at the border - I was worried that in case it gets late and I can't get insurance then would it be a problem? Perhaps I could still duck into Malaysia and buy insurance in KL or Penang (or wherever I end up) the following day? I will try to get to the border by around 5pm after starting my journey from Prachuab or somewhere around there in the morning, should be doable, but let's see. It kinda doesn't make sense that the border is open until 11pm but you can't buy insurance after 6pm.

 

[blackwolf]

This might be quite important for overlanders headed to Thailand, as it could get you stuck at the border for 30 days:


There's a guy called Marvin Wen who, with a copy of a Thai permit from another tour company, used the permit copy to enter Thailand, ducked the Thai tour guide at the border and rode off into Thailand. Apparently has given the Thai tour company a huge headache doing this.


He's around posting everywhere, that its a lie and a Thai tour guide isnt needed. Apparently screwed the agent out of half the agreed fees too.

If you're reading his stuff, maybe call Thai DLT and check for yourself (+66 2271 8409) and they will confirm it is needed 100% to be legal.


Doesn't seem very smart and moderators are letting him post the bad information.

Where is he posting? On here? If the police, DLT or another relevant authority catch him unsupervised and flouting the laws, his ride could be confiscated and they might make it more difficult for foreigners to bring in temporary imports. Something like this happened in China 2-3 years ago when it was revealed that a tour company there could organize entry permits without the need for an accompanying guide (a bit like Thailand until a few weeks ago) only needed a guide at the entry and exit borders but after the group entered a restricted area (Tibet?) the government cracked down harshly, revoked the tour company's licence for a while and made sure no one could enter and tour China without a guide.

 

[KTMphil]

Was all over FB groups. Once he got caught at the Chiang Khong border exiting, got into a mess, then once he realized everything he posted was wrong, went back and edited to say that "he now wasn't sure and maybe a permit and a guide was mandatory for Thailand". Basically just made a huge, confusing mess for everyone.

Where is he posting? On here? If the police, DLT or another relevant authority catch him unsupervised and flouting the laws, his ride could be confiscated and they might make it more difficult for foreigners to bring in temporary imports. Something like this happened in China 2-3 years ago when it was revealed that a tour company there could organize entry permits without the need for an accompanying guide (a bit like Thailand until a few weeks ago) only needed a guide at the entry and exit borders but after the group entered a restricted area (Tibet?) the government cracked down harshly, revoked the tour company's licence for a while and made sure no one could enter and tour China without a guide.

 

[joko hurricanemax]

Thanks for that info. I would prefer to cross the same day rather than linger at the border - I was worried that in case it gets late and I can't get insurance then would it be a problem? Perhaps I could still duck into Malaysia and buy insurance in KL or Penang (or wherever I end up) the following day? I will try to get to the border by around 5pm after starting my journey from Prachuab or somewhere around there in the morning, should be doable, but let's see. It kinda doesn't make sense that the border is open until 11pm but you can't buy insurance after 6pm.

Agree with most of your comments.
There have been cases where the 'on/off' Malaysian checkpoint (after border clearance, could be Border patrol or Road transport enforcement) turned back the vehicular arrivals without m'sian 3rd party insurance. It depends on your luck i suppose.

The insur shops not open for biz after 6pm? Well, I think they are NOT that hungry for business. BUT that maybe is changed now, what with economic situation is not so booming anymore.

Its a long ride from Prachuap KK (one of my fave towns too) but methink if u left at 6am then u have plenty of time to be at the border. The stretch 60km from Htyai to the border is sull of factories and they finis work from 4.30-6pm... add in if school finishing hour then you are in for a heavy traffic ride.
good luck & safe ride.

 

[blackwolf]

Was all over FB groups. Once he got caught at the Chiang Khong border exiting, got into a mess, then once he realized everything he posted was wrong, went back and edited to say that "he now wasn't sure and maybe a permit and a guide was mandatory for Thailand". Basically just made a huge, confusing mess for everyone.

I wonder how he got a permit from another tour company. Or perhaps he applied to two different companies? I would imagine that Thai customs are now very strict and won't/shouldn't let you pass without sighting the guide that will lead you through Thailand. Though perhaps because this law is new, it is still causing some confusion at the borders.

 

[blackwolf]

Agree with most of your comments.
There have been cases where the 'on/off' Malaysian checkpoint (after border clearance, could be Border patrol or Road transport enforcement) turned back the vehicular arrivals without m'sian 3rd party insurance. It depends on your luck i suppose.

The insur shops not open for biz after 6pm? Well, I think they are NOT that hungry for business. BUT that maybe is changed now, what with economic situation is not so booming anymore.

Its a long ride from Prachuap KK (one of my fave towns too) but methink if u left at 6am then u have plenty of time to be at the border. The stretch 60km from Htyai to the border is sull of factories and they finis work from 4.30-6pm... add in if school finishing hour then you are in for a heavy traffic ride.
good luck & safe ride.

I dunno but when I drove into Malaysia last time, plenty of vehicles were passing through and it was late afternoon/early evening by the time I made it past the border because I had to wait 2 hours for the stickers to be done. This time, I'll get them done before arriving at the border - I believe any shop can make them and there's no specified size?

Just found a tour agent that also advertises on Facebook - they can get the JPJ and Malaysian insurance done in advance. I think that since I am planning on heading into Malaysia during a holiday period they will be plenty busy. There are also agents able to sell Malaysian insurance in Hat Yai.

When I drove to Malaysia last time via Padang Besar, got turned back at the enforcement post 5km beyond the border because I thought that Thai insurance covered you until 50km outside the country. Finally managed to get insurance done and was inside Malaysia sometime before 7pm.

Looking at Google Maps streetview, I can't see where to purchase insurance on the Malaysian side at the Sadao crossing. Coming from Thailand, you proceed straight past Thai outbound immigration past the duty free complex on the right, then Malaysian immigration then that's it from what I could see. After that there are two checkpoints a few km apart. Therefore, I'll take care of the Malaysian insurance on the Thai side. Looks like it's a lot easier to get it done here.

 

[KTMphil]

I wonder how he got a permit from another tour company. Or perhaps he applied to two different companies? I would imagine that Thai customs are now very strict and won't/shouldn't let you pass without sighting the guide that will lead you through Thailand. Though perhaps because this law is new, it is still causing some confusion at the borders.

The Thai tour agency foolishly emailed a copy of his permit in advance. He then gave it a shot at the border with the permit copy, got in, and tried to get across Thailand quickly, giving the tour company a headache chasing him in a car & thought he could stiff the tour company out of the other 50% of the agreed fee that he hadnt paid yet!!

 

[KTMphil]

We've got overlander's contacting us now totally confused. There's admins of Facebook groups telling people you dont need permits and guide's "do it", try get in illegally, of course they want to believe this but its 100% illegal. A really stupid thing to do and could get people into serious trouble without them knowing, especially if they kill someone.


do it by Triangle Golden 007, on Flickr

 

[blackwolf]

We've got overlander's contacting us now totally confused. There's admins of Facebook groups telling people you dont need permits and guide's "do it", try get in illegally, of course they want to believe this but its 100% illegal. A really stupid thing to do and could get people into serious trouble without them knowing, especially if they kill someone.


do it by Triangle Golden 007, on Flickr

There is a degree of arrogance amongst certain people in these FB groups. I joined one of them at the beginning (a group called "overlanders - Thailand new rules" something like that) but stopped visiting the group months ago as it had descended into a bickering fest with entitled people complaining about the new rules all the time. I don't understand what makes these people think they can get in without a permit or guide - it's not dependent on the border crossing but all borders enforce the rules equally. The country you are departing from will make it clear that you can't proceed to Thailand without a permit and won't let you leave their country without one.

 

[KTMphil]

German/ Swiss who have the 1949 Road Reg. International Driving license headaches headed for Thailand. A German rider showed me his 1926 Road Reg. version that is available in Germany. It does say that Thailand qualifies on the inside cover. If you are able to obtain this version of the international driving license in Germany/ Switzerland / Austria, it will save you a lot of red tape (notarized translations etc...) hassle for Thailand, as the 1949 Road Reg. version of the IDP is not recognized in Thailand. It also seems to have no expiry date. No-one has EVER applied for permit entry in Thailand with this version of the IDP (Road Reg. 1926), we will confirm on Monday if it qualifies.


1926 by Triangle Golden 007, on Flickr




1926 by Triangle Golden 007, on Flickr

 

[KTMphil]

Thailand, DLT permits for foreign vehicles have fixed dates that are the period you are entitled to ride on Thai roads. The permit process takes 20 days if you want to change the dates.


3 Indian registered bikes we sponsored got into a mess with the dates that their bikes would arrive at Suvannaphumi Airport, Bangkok & we had not alternative but to arrange to ship them as cargo to Chiang Khong, their Thai DLT permits had already expired.


permit 2 by Triangle Golden 007, on Flickr



permit 1 by Triangle Golden 007, on Flickr



Breaking them out of the crates at Chiang Khong, finally free to ride

image by Triangle Golden 007, on Flickr



& they're doing it for a good cause


india bike by Triangle Golden 007, on Flickr

 

[_euam_]

Managed to organise a container shipment from Malaysia -> Ulanbataar for reasonable price. Price for extra bikes will be less than 1000$. (Obviously the more bikes the cheaper it will get) Shipment will take 20-25 days and currently loaded with 2 bikes. Can accommodate 4 more bikes if anyone is interested.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[KTMphil]

That looks like great value, nice job.

Managed to organise a container shipment from Malaysia -> Ulanbataar for reasonable price. Price for extra bikes will be less than 1000$. (Obviously the more bikes the cheaper it will get) Shipment will take 20-25 days and currently loaded with 2 bikes. Can accommodate 4 more bikes if anyone is interested.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[KTMphil]

1926 Road Reg. International Driving Licenses are not now recognized in Thailand.

German/ Swiss who have the 1949 Road Reg. International Driving license headaches headed for Thailand. A German rider showed me his 1926 Road Reg. version that is available in Germany. It does say that Thailand qualifies on the inside cover. If you are able to obtain this version of the international driving license in Germany/ Switzerland / Austria, it will save you a lot of red tape (notarized translations etc...) hassle for Thailand, as the 1949 Road Reg. version of the IDP is not recognized in Thailand. It also seems to have no expiry date. No-one has EVER applied for permit entry in Thailand with this version of the IDP (Road Reg. 1926), we will confirm on Monday if it qualifies.


1926 by Triangle Golden 007, on Flickr




1926 by Triangle Golden 007, on Flickr