No Green Book No More Fun

[bikesncats]

We all herd the stories of how many years some dudes have been riding around without a green book..."an invoice is just fine I never got in trouble" is what they all say now that they quickly try and sell those rides while they still can get a buck for them...

Truth is, as it looks...those of us who have been saying that bikes without a green book should be following the price list of scrap bikes...or basically spare parts bikes...were pretty much hitting the nail on the head.

As some recent reports highlight, not only are the sunny days where everything goes over...we have now hit the end of the road of leasurly getting away by riding illegal bikes.

I had herd of a few people that had gotten their rides confiscated in the passed year...but I now got a first hand report from a friend who, together with his mate, saw their bikes confiscated and got themselves arrested and deported...all because they were riding their beloved bikes as they have done for the passed 10 years, with an invoice only...

A block from the land of Oz ended up walking home in Sangkha and when his wife picked up the bike the next day they were give an official 90 day notice to complete the due inspections and paper work and show proof that the greenbook was on the way...or else

So...to anyone considering buying a bike without green book I can only say this: if the invoice is recent go ahead and be prepared to spend anywhere between 100k and 300k depending on the bike to get it road legal...if not be aware of the possible consequences if caught...foremost...let the price you dish out reflect the fact that you will pay considerable amounts to get it legal or will be taking major risks...

...to anyone selling a bike without a greenbook...please stop peddling the fact that you rode it for years with just an invoice in the attempt to fuck some poor newcomer over...I mean...hey...there's a reason why you're selling it in hurry now after so many years of trouble free riding...GOT TO FEEL THE HEAT???
Be honest about it and let the buyer take an informed decision...

Ride safe

 

[jkrfjessjess]

Deported .......

 

[KTMphil]

Big clamp down going on in Chiang Mai too. Even if its an off-road bike - MX or enduro looking, as soon as you assemble those parts into what the Thai Customs Revenue Department consider it to be a complete machine (wheels off they will still consider it to be a complete machine, they have indicated engine out of the frame will qualify as not complete machine), then it needs to already have the 30% Thai Customs assembly/ excise revenue tax paid invoice. If they then "discover" the motorcycle in a completed machine state without you able to produce the 30% assembly tax invoice with matching frame VIN & engine numbers on the invoice, then 30% tax & an additional 60% penalty tax is then due on their new motorcycle value of tables they have, irrelevant of how old the motorcycle "discovered" is.


EVEN IF THE MOTORCYCLE IS ON PRIVATE PROPERTY, ASSEMEBLED YOU NEED TO BE ABLE TO PRODUCE THE 30% ASSEMBLY TAX PAID INVOICE.


You can't just say "i dont care take it", you are now on the hook for the 90% of the motorcycle NEW value as a penalty & if you dont pay at the Thai Customs Revenue office, then the case is handed over to the Royal Thai Police as a criminal matter (not super criminal serious), but failure to pay the 90% new motorcycle value can have serious consequences on your Thai immigration visa status.


Once the motorcycle has been discovered by the Thai Customs revenue department without 30% excise tax paid invoice, they will then make a report and ask the owner to come with them to the police station to file a report, the motorcycle cannot then be moved or used until the matter is closed. After visiting the police station you will then have a meeting in the Thai Customs revenue office where they will calculate how much tax penalty you owe.


A Thai lawyer will advise you, as a foreigner NOT to admit that the motorcycle is yours and if possible have Thai wife or Thai girlfriend sign ownership for the motorcycle at the Thai police station. It has the same financial consequences but relieves the foreigner of the potential Thai immigration issues if you dont wish to pay the penalty.


If you say no to the penalty at the Thai Customs revenue office, then you or the admitted owner will be escorted to the Thai Police station, where a statement will be made and you/ owner will be charged with the tax violation offence. This will then go to court and its a gamble whether after lawyer fees and time wasted if you will come out financially ahead.



If you go the "not paying the penalty" court route, if the penalty in court isnt paid by the Thai admitted owner of the bike within 30 days, then the matter is handed over to the court execution division who then look into ways of obtaining the debt. Selling the bike at auction, bank accounts, vehicles in the owners name and even land can be taken.

 

[monsterman]

clampdown has not hit pattaya YET ???? loads of unregistered (no book ) bikes for sale ,,,, ITS A MUGS GAME

also the cops have stopped all check points and as a consequence 90% of riders have dumped their helmets !!!!!!!!!

 

[Nightrider70]

There have been plenty of check points in Pattaya the last year. Many with DUI checks.

 

[KTMphil]

There have been plenty of check points in Pattaya the last year. Many with DUI checks.

Robert Heikel got his Chinese motorcycle confiscated at a checkpoint for no registration papers in Pattaya about a year ago.

 

[esspressolungo]

So what are the options then, if you want a dirt bike? CRF250L, kind of okay but not good enough for the bad staff, same with the KLX250 I would say. Husqvarna plated with green book over 500k THB, same with KTM, I think. Another option are those XR's, that I used to ride many years, then the next question, you got a bike with number plate and green book and you still cannot be 100% sure the bike is legal, it might be a recycled book or tabien suam. What is happening with those bikes? Will they get confiscated at the transport office when you want to transfer ownership? Many questions and I am afraid most can't be answered by the authorities.

 

[monsterman]

There have been plenty of check points in Pattaya the last year. Many with DUI checks.

I have not seen a single checkpoint anywhere in pattaya from 8am until midnite ,, maybe they only come out in the witching hours when im tucked up in bed with my Teddy ,, but no worries as im all legal anyway,,

 

[KTMphil]

A block from the land of Oz ended up walking home in Sangkha and when his wife picked up the bike the next day they were give an official 90 day notice to complete the due inspections and paper work and show proof that the greenbook was on the way...or else

Kawasaki legally sell the KLX 140 in Thailand which has no lights or turn signals so can NEVER be road registered. I don't believe legally they can then confiscate this bike EVEN if you are caught on a public road, there would just be a fine.

 

[Captain_Slash]

Nobody seems to care about unregistered bikes here in Mae Sariang at the moment, perhaps its coming here too

 

[MastaMax]

So what are the options then, if you want a dirt bike? CRF250L, kind of okay but not good enough for the bad staff, same with the KLX250 I would say. Husqvarna plated with green book over 500k THB, same with KTM, I think. Another option are those XR's, that I used to ride many years, then the next question, you got a bike with number plate and green book and you still cannot be 100% sure the bike is legal, it might be a recycled book or tabien suam. What is happening with those bikes? Will they get confiscated at the transport office when you want to transfer ownership? Many questions and I am afraid most can't be answered by the authorities.

Hey Rudi, it's not all that bad... It's true that riding in the city with a non-plated bike or bringing your bike to a bike shop is risky, it's all good once you are out of town. 100s of MX bikes, little supercup (modified scooters) and other bikes are still riding around and haven't heard anything bad yet. Also, as Phil said, if you have an invoice+excise tax paid all you risk is a fine.

What I heard (not sure if it's a rumour or true), is that they once did a police checkpoint on the way to Huay Tung Tao as they know a lot of bikes ride through. What I do know if I ride in the area is park the pickup/trailer in huay tung tao's parking and go from there.

 

[bikesncats]

Thanks Phil...that was a great rundown of the facts and well explained...especially for those with a bike that has no proof of a paid import tax invoice. The clampdown is getting really extreme.

Also, as Phil said, if you have an invoice+excise tax paid all you risk is a fine.

I am not so sure that it is that easy anymore if they (the ones catching you) really want to stick it to you..

From what I gathered of Michele's ordeal, if the invoice is old enough it proves that you never cared about making your ride road legal. Now being on a public road with a motorcycle that you own (as the invoice proves in his case) but is not a road legal vehicle makes the outing a criminal offense.

A criminal offense can be used to review your visa status...in their case, M..... and A..... (sorry for the names, now corrected, thnx for pointing it out) had both been here with work visas for well over 10 years riding 2 bikes they brought from Italy 10 years ago and paid the tax back then (but never bothered doing anything else)...so that fine you risk can have other serious consequences attached to it...to which you actually admit (according to Wan, lawyer in Surin) the moment you actually pay the fine.

We have been driving around quite a bit lately in all hours of the night and day and I can say that I have never seen that many police road blocks before in my life...never mind in Thailand. Just last night going to Buriram, then onto Satuek, Phayakkaphum Phisai, Chumphon Buri, Tha Tum, Surin and back to Prasat we passed 8 roadblocks...were stopped 7 times, asked for papers 5 and had the back checked twice...so much for no more checkpoints.

Recycled books are in most cases legal as long as the proper inspections and paperwork have been followed and can be documented. (of course if you are riding an R1 with the plate and book of a scooter it's a different story)...

 

[Thump]

Could it be that the Japanese are putting on pressure to boost their sales?

 

[brake034]

2 years ago I was offered an "official" import duty and excise tax invoice for 1900 baht, I am happy I never bought that bike.......

 

[johnnysneds]

Thanks Phil...that was a great rundown of the facts and well explained...especially for those with a bike that has no proof of a paid import tax invoice. The clampdown is getting really extreme.



I am not so sure that it is that easy anymore if they (the ones catching you) really want to stick it to you..

From what I gathered of Michele's ordeal, if the invoice is old enough it proves that you never cared about making your ride road legal. Now being on a public road with a motorcycle that you own (as the invoice proves in his case) but is not a road legal vehicle makes the outing a criminal offense.

A criminal offense can be used to review your visa status...in their case, M..... and A..... (sorry for the names, now corrected, thnx for pointing it out) had both been here with work visas for well over 10 years riding 2 bikes they brought from Italy 10 years ago and paid the tax back then (but never bothered doing anything else)...so that fine you risk can have other serious consequences attached to it...to which you actually admit (according to Wan, lawyer in Surin) the moment you actually pay the fine.

We have been driving around quite a bit lately in all hours of the night and day and I can say that I have never seen that many police road blocks before in my life...never mind in Thailand. Just last night going to Buriram, then onto Satuek, Phayakkaphum Phisai, Chumphon Buri, Tha Tum, Surin and back to Prasat we passed 8 roadblocks...were stopped 7 times, asked for papers 5 and had the back checked twice...so much for no more checkpoints.

Recycled books are in most cases legal as long as the proper inspections and paperwork have been followed and can be documented. (of course if you are riding an R1 with the plate and book of a scooter it's a different story)...

A tad hypocritical coming from someone who brags about achieving 349Km/h on public roads, maybe the road blocks have something to do with that also.....just saying.

 

[jkrfjessjess]

A tad hypocritical coming from someone who brags about achieving 349Km/h on public roads, maybe the road blocks have something to do with that also.....just saying.

If all these road blocks / check points are in the Surin next to Nakhon Nowhere maybe its due to a boarder issue . Perhaps the Cambodians dont want any undesirables sneaking over . Just a thought ....

 

[jkrfjessjess]

2 years ago I was offered an "official" import duty and excise tax invoice for 1900 baht, I am happy I never bought that bike.......

Ha ha good move , could have been something nice to ride .... dodged that bullet

 

[bikesncats]

A tad hypocritical coming from someone who brags about achieving 349Km/h on public roads, maybe the road blocks have something to do with that also.....just saying.

Hypocritical to report that road blocks have been on the rising? (as opposed to being dropped as some mentioned...)

As far as "bragging" goes...I guess it is always a matter of how one perceives what has been reported and I can see how someone with no clue how to get there would actually consider it as such...no matter how it's presented. Also just saying...

 

[bikesncats]

Could it be that the Japanese are putting on pressure to boost their sales?

Personally I believe that the current "officials" have been putting a lot of pressure on police to remove vehicles (especially targeting motorcycles judging by what I've seen and herd) that are not "road worthy" and go after those "farangs" that are willingly breaking the law...there are reported deportations on people overstaying on expired visas as they go to rectify the status...I guess it's just another case of "them" cleaning up "crime and corruption"

 

[johnnysneds]

Hypocritical to report that road blocks have been on the rising? (as opposed to being dropped as some mentioned...)

As far as "bragging" goes...I guess it is always a matter of how one perceives what has been reported and I can see how someone with no clue how to get there would actually consider it as such...no matter how it's presented. Also just saying...

Haha you still sound like a hyper-educated eeediot who swallowed a thesaurus. Great entertainment value (couldn't find the hook, line 'n sinker smiley).

 

[brake034]

We are reaching Thai Visa level content here!

 

[marcusb]

""there are reported deportations on people overstaying on expired visas as they go to rectify the status..""

?

 

[esspressolungo]

Hey Rudi, it's not all that bad... It's true that riding in the city with a non-plated bike or bringing your bike to a bike shop is risky, it's all good once you are out of town. 100s of MX bikes, little supercup (modified scooters) and other bikes are still riding around and haven't heard anything bad yet. Also, as Phil said, if you have an invoice+excise tax paid all you risk is a fine.

What I heard (not sure if it's a rumour or true), is that they once did a police checkpoint on the way to Huay Tung Tao as they know a lot of bikes ride through. What I do know if I ride in the area is park the pickup/trailer in huay tung tao's parking and go from there.

Hey Max, yes I think you're right with what you say. Maybe just over-reacting....

 

[jkrfjessjess]

Haha you still sound like a hyper-educated eeediot who swallowed a thesaurus. Great entertainment value (couldn't find the hook, line 'n sinker smiley).

I got the " Bell End " Smiley but am saving it for a special occasion 5555 . My Bullshit meter pic is itching to get used though 55555

 

[monsterman]

Poisonous thread this one ,, having been out of Thailand for 10 months , I have been wandering around Pattaya and BKK chatting to old contacts and it does seem that ,, there is a seed change,, Unregistered bikes are now pariahs , some dealers have broken up bikes for spares if they are immpossible to register for a green book , some have actually exported old stock out of thailand to other markets to get some cash ,,,
the enforcement is now more subtle ,, with the advent of new reasonably priced legal big bikes from the big manufacturers the old grey import market has changed to supplying niche models legally and also parts and accessories or non dealer servicing ,the whole grey market is restructuring to survive , some old players have dropped out completely.

as for enduro and off road bikes without a book ,, the Thai authorities are aware of the large number of back yard enduros / MX bikes not registered they will always be on the lookout for a bust , is it worth the risk they may be cheap but confiscation is certain if caught and who wants to be at the mercy of the Thai justice and immigration system !!!!!!! not worth it when you can get reasonably priced new bikes legally,, personally peace of mind is my choice these days

 

[MastaMax]

as for enduro and off road bikes without a book ,, the Thai authorities are aware of the large number of back yard enduros / MX bikes not registered they will always be on the lookout for a bust , is it worth the risk they may be cheap but confiscation is certain if caught and who wants to be at the mercy of the Thai justice and immigration system !!!!!!! not worth it when you can get reasonably priced new bikes legally,, personally peace of mind is my choice these days

I don't think they are on the lookout for a bust... If they were they would show up at any offroad event and but 100% of the bikes. Offroad bikes are still pretty safe and no they are no alternatives, a klx/crf-l is not an offroad bike, it's a dual sport. Also there isn't a single mx bike that has plates in the whole world. Enduro bikes yes, but do you think the "authorities" expect every Thai teenager to drop 500+k baht on a road-legal offroad bike?

Another example, there was a big Enduro event last week. They rode from San Phi Seua all the way to Mae Wang on the road. 100s of unregistered bikes escorted by the police. If it was that illegal they wouldn't allow it.

People should stop overreacting.

 

[Thump]

I like this topic!

Just recently it occurred to me how much Thailand has changed.

When I got here the first time in 1991 I could buy a one year visa under the table for 12,000 baht, no questions asked.
The biggest legal bike was the Phantom 200, then there was the Kawsaki Boss 175 and the CBR150R.
I could buy any bike I could find at some shop in BKK, and remember fondly how they pulled that dusty XT400 with missing parts and flat tires out of a pile of bikes they probably bought at an auction in Japan. I even got it legal, I went to the DLT and they punched in the engine number, later I got a green book. It was cheap, I don't remember how much but I didn't have much money in those days.
Then I would ride south to the beaches, check into a simple bamboo hut for 150 baht and asked for some ganja, which was supplied maybe a couple of hours later. The quality wasn't good but it was dirt cheap!

Those were the days!

 

[johnnysneds]

I don't think they are on the lookout for a bust... If they were they would show up at any offroad event and but 100% of the bikes. Offroad bikes are still pretty safe and no they are no alternatives, a klx/crf-l is not an offroad bike, it's a dual sport. Also there isn't a single mx bike that has plates in the whole world. Enduro bikes yes, but do you think the "authorities" expect every Thai teenager to drop 500+k baht on a road-legal offroad bike?

Another example, there was a big Enduro event last week. They rode from San Phi Seua all the way to Mae Wang on the road. 100s of unregistered bikes escorted by the police. If it was that illegal they wouldn't allow it.

People should stop overreacting.

Spot on

 

[jkrfjessjess]

"not worth it when you can get reasonably priced new bikes legally,, personally peace of mind is my choice these days"

,,?,, Kindly point ,, out a GOOD bike that is ,, reasonably priced here . Many people will settle for mediocre budget built uninspiring crap but there are a few of us who have been riding ,, a long time ( the sorts that think Phantoms are not chick magnets ).
You want decent sports or " adventure " bike then its gunna be unreasonably expensive to go the legal because of the duties etc . You want a decent enduro or trials bike ,, KTM is the only option for enduro at eye watering prices for something that is unlikely to ever see ,, much road use ( but comes with a ,,Green book )
Trials is a no hoper ,, Like Max says lets not worry at the moment and if you are concerned ,, lock you bike in a shed in some back of beyond region and wait till there is a new government ,,

 

[KTMphil]

Another example, there was a big Enduro event last week. They rode from San Phi Seua all the way to Mae Wang on the road. 100s of unregistered bikes escorted by the police. If it was that illegal they wouldn't allow it.

I think what's different here (compared to our home countries) is that the way the various government departments "some might say" are profit centers with "incentive motivating bonuses", which many foreigners dont understand. So much so that different government departments arnt interested in co-operating with each other as the potential revenue penalty is then handed to another profit center, basically a lot of work for nothing. Remember these people "some say" have paid a lot of money to get these jobs, dont believe me ask any educated Thai person and some might say that they are looking to recoup that revenue over the lifetime of their employment.

The police guy doing the "escorting" is trumped by the Thai Customs revenue Dept. They have primary power in trying to recoup the revenue owed on any motorcycle parts in a completed machine form that doesnt have excise tax paid, nothing to do with the police at this stage. This is the reason why the police arnt interested.

 

[KTMphil]

So the Thai Customs Revenue Dept. find you with this or the Thai Police hiding around a blind corner catch you, do you get let off with no assembly/ excise tax?


no tax by Triangle Golden 007, on Flickr

 

[bsacbob]

On the subject of hybrid type bikes, saw this yesterday being proudly ridden by a policeman, apparently it has an Honda Bros frame, Lifan motor, forks of a suzuki and a petrol tank from a fire extinguisher, but all ok because somehow he tell's me it has plate.

 

[bikesncats]

Haha you still sound like a hyper-educated eeediot who swallowed a thesaurus....

so someone told you about my level of education...(but forgot to mention that I got there by working full time and going to nightschool). I guess I have to consider your statement a compliment coming from someone of the "IN" crowd considered that you guys get to a combined IQ of a doorknob...go fetch now

 

[brake034]

IN crowd, inner circle, key people.....where did I hear that before???

 

[bikesncats]

....
Another example, there was a big Enduro event last week. They rode from San Phi Seua all the way to Mae Wang on the road. 100s of unregistered bikes escorted by the police. If it was that illegal they wouldn't allow it.

People should stop overreacting.

Races and organized events are certainly not the same issue as riding in cities with motorcycles that are not road legal...

 

[bikesncats]

I like this topic!

Just recently it occurred to me how much Thailand has changed.

When I got here the first time in 1991 I could buy a one year visa under the table for 12,000 baht, no questions asked.
The biggest legal bike was the Phantom 200, then there was the Kawsaki Boss 175 and the CBR150R.
I could buy any bike I could find at some shop in BKK, and remember fondly how they pulled that dusty XT400 with missing parts and flat tires out of a pile of bikes they probably bought at an auction in Japan. I even got it legal, I went to the DLT and they punched in the engine number, later I got a green book. It was cheap, I don't remember how much but I didn't have much money in those days.
Then I would ride south to the beaches, check into a simple bamboo hut for 150 baht and asked for some ganja, which was supplied maybe a couple of hours later. The quality wasn't good but it was dirt cheap!

Those were the days!

Always watch out for that moldy stuff that came in under the bilge of a sailing boat...

 

[bikesncats]

"not worth it when you can get reasonably priced new bikes legally,, personally peace of mind is my choice these days"

,,?,, Kindly point ,, out a GOOD bike that is ,, reasonably priced here . Many people will settle for mediocre budget built uninspiring crap but there are a few of us who have been riding ,, a long time ( the sorts that think Phantoms are not chick magnets ).
You want decent sports or " adventure " bike then its gunna be unreasonably expensive to go the legal because of the duties etc . You want a decent enduro or trials bike ,, KTM is the only option for enduro at eye watering prices for something that is unlikely to ever see ,, much road use ( but comes with a ,,Green book )
Trials is a no hoper ,, Like Max says lets not worry at the moment and if you are concerned ,, lock you bike in a shed in some back of beyond region and wait till there is a new government ,,

I don't know where you have been in the passed year or two but I suggest you take a stroll around through some serious bike shops (not BMW and KTM for now as these guys are still milking it) and you will see that a serious drop has occurred and is still continuing. Just as an example, an MT-09 is now 390k at Yamaha Square in Surin...something you wouldn't have seen a couple years ago.

Import duties are drastically changing that dynamics of the thai bike market. The Agreement Thailand has with Japan under which they have been phasing out import taxes to a 0 level by 2016 and leaving only 10% tax this year has already changed prices enormously. In addition with advent of the ASEA realm there has been a serious shifting of alliances and manufacturing locations by many players seeing numerous manufacturers now assembling in Thailand and as such receiving serious tax brakes...which are as of today not quite passed along (take BMW for example)...but eventually will have to if they want to remain competitive. Give it another year...

 

[bikesncats]

""there are reported deportations on people overstaying on expired visas as they go to rectify the status..""

?

Ohh and as for you marcusb...what is it between you and your other bright bulb buddy? if you dumbass want to point out that my English isn't as perfect as yours thank you so much...now go fetch alongside it...

 

[bikesncats]

IN crowd, inner circle, key people.....where did I hear that before???

Not sure my friend...but it must have been over at the "opium hub riders bunch"...some of the brightest bulbs here seem to favour that kind of highly intelligent interaction...maybe we can organize a collective "go fetch day" for the entire sissy squad!

 

[Matt]

I don't know where you have been in the passed year or two but I suggest you take a stroll around through some serious bike shops (not BMW and KTM for now as these guys are still milking it) and you will see that a serious drop has occurred and is still continuing. Just as an example, an MT-09 is now 390k at Yamaha Square in Surin...something you wouldn't have seen a couple years ago.

Import duties are drastically changing that dynamics of the thai bike market. The Agreement Thailand has with Japan under which they have been phasing out import taxes to a 0 level by 2016 and leaving only 10% tax this year has already changed prices enormously. In addition with advent of the ASEA realm there has been a serious shifting of alliances and manufacturing locations by many players seeing numerous manufacturers now assembling in Thailand and as such receiving serious tax brakes...which are as of today not quite passed along (take BMW for example)...but eventually will have to if they want to remain competitive. Give it another year...

So, answer the question... Tell us a good dirt bike that is available with a plate at a reasonable price? Even if they do not have a hollow one off titanium crank - they'll still do... ,,