Confirmation of clamp down on visa runs at Mae Sai

crs said:
As an aside, just talked to a lady at Hull Consulate, UK... The Thai Consulates/Embassy in the UK are no longer issuing retirement non-Os unless you're over 65!
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I was told they wouldnt issue multiples.. But would issue singles ??? Hence making you show the cash in Thailand..

Also they now want married couples to each show separate 800k, not joint accounts and not the same funds.. Before it could be one couple on one amount of money, but in the last year its now 1.6 mil they have to show for a couple !!
 
In the UK > 65 years case I would opt for a 90 days tourist visa and at arrival apply to extend that visa in Thailand for a one year non-O based on retirement.
I have not heard that this 65 years minimal age is a requirement in Thailand, here 50 years applies as far as I know.
That non-O retirement extension can be extended every year in Thailand, you just need to get a re-entry permit each time you leave Thailand.
 
LivinLOS said:
Well yeah a Thai doesnt need the visa :)
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Correct but some people would get confused reading your statement.

And, what you think about Thais who have adopted another nationality and were forced to give up the Thai nationality???!!
 
crs said:
If you check the reqs on Hull Consulate's website, you can see 65+. London hasn't updated their site yet, by the looks of it but the lady definitely said, they're not issuing for 50-64 year olds now... Visas & Downloads :: The Royal Thai Consulate
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Nuts.. Very strange when 50 is still the age incountry.. Did she explain why ??

Hull used to be very confused on the issue of non imm O for retirement and the actual retirement O-A visa also.. They didnt know or understand the differences of an O-A when discussing it.
 
brake034 said:
And, what you think about Thais who have adopted another nationality and were forced to give up the Thai nationality???!!
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How does that work for returning ??

I know as a brit we can give up our nationality, but anytime we want it back we can get it back.. The brits accept dual nationality and you cant sign away your nationality permanently.
 
I believe Thais can get back their nationality too, based on birth certificate.

The Thai embassy in The Netherlands warns against this issue but many Thais opt for the Dutch nationality.
We were lucky, my wife and two daughters have dual nationalities under old legislation, now that is impossible for Thais in Holland.
 
brake034 said:
This is for a farang/farang couple, for a farang/Thai couple 800K is sufficient.
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It used to normally be 400k+ for a married to Thai non-O visa (Eg, Singapore: Non-Immigrant Visa-O (Thai Spouse) | Royal Thai Embassy) or married to Thai extension at Immigration (Non Imm "O" - marriage - Thaivisa) if they want to check finances.

For 'married' non-Os, Thai Embassies/Consulates in some countries want to see evidence of this, some don't (or didn't). Hull didn't - now they do. Reqs say married non-O applicants need to show a monthly income of 65k, but I was told evidence of a fair amount of savings has worked too. (And, I would guess that 'fair' = 400k - but it may be more now, and this is up to the Thai London Embassy as it doesn't seem to be declared specifically.)

It's usually 800k for retirement stuff...
 
LivinLOS was referring to a retirement visa for both partners in which case it is 2x800K for both partners farang.
If a retirement visa for a single farang is applicable, only 800K baht.

For a marriage visa to a Thai national, 400K baht!
 
Ah - so your farang/Thai 'couple' aren't married - OK. (As then why would they bother with a retiree visa...) LivinLOS was originally referring to married couples.
 
Not sure where the thread has gone but LinvinLOS referred to a retirement couple, if both partners are farang they need 800 K each (in separate Thai bank accounts, each on their own name) for a retirement visa. A single retired farang needs 800K in a Thai bank account on her/his name.
A farang married to a Thai national needs 400 K in a bank account in her/his name.

As an alternative one can demonstrate monthly income, and again for retirement visa´s for a farang couple both partners need to show income.
Marriage is 40 k baht/month and retired is 65 k baht/month/per person as far as I know.

Combinations of both bank account and monthly income are possible too!
 
He (LivinLOS) referred to 'married couples' - retiree/retired was implied. #42 Therefore, people would likely infer that, after quoting him, then proceeding to make a statement regarding 'couples', you (brake034) would be talking about married couples too...

Possibly a little confusing for the reader, so I tried to clarify. :D
 
Yeah sorry.. I made some assumptions that when talking about 2 people needing to qualify for retirement visas, that it would be seen as 2 non-Thais.

They always used to allow one retirement and one dependent based off the others retirement.. No longer the case.. And 1.6 mil is a chunk to need to season for 3 months.

They raised the investor visa from 3 mil to 10, and refused to grandfather in people who they felt had money too mobile (bonds) but IIRC they did grandfather the condo buyers.

Now need incomes in the UK to give out marriage visas..

Lots of gradual changes none of which are any easier. Of course they are fully within their rights to change anything they wish, but with PI and Cambo offering 1 year visas for a 100 bucks or so, no real issues to work incountry, and a lot less visa stress, its not hard to imagine the unmarried under 50 professional contract workers, looking for other options.
 
LivinLOS said:
Now need incomes in the UK to give out marriage visas..
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Or evidence of sufficient savings in either Thailand or the UK should do - for a marriage visa issued in the UK. (Though it was suggested to me that London might actually look better on a savings balance held with a Thai bank.) Seems like they're just matching up with what Thai Immigration require if you apply for a visa extension on grounds of being married to a Thai.
 
According to the above they must have repealed Police Order 777/2551?? Does anyone know the new one??

I find the fingerprint requirement at all immigration points by the end of this year interesting. It is a shame it will only catch
those with a Thai criminal record or if the country the offence occurred in has notified Interpol otherwise we might see a mass
migration unless people have read the reports and are willing to take a chance.

As Immigration points out biometrics are flawed in this case if the offender changes his name legally and the watch list only looks at
the names.
 
Jut had a chap come in the bar that did his 4th visa run at Mae Sai TODAY - they told him he can do one more. The discretionary nature of Thai immigration continues I suppose?
 
KTMphil said:
Jut had a chap come in the bar that did his 4th visa run at Mae Sai TODAY - they told him he can do one more. The discretionary nature of Thai immigration continues I suppose?
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The end date of multiple visa runs outside of Mai Sai is Aug 12th.. 3 months after the announcement May 12th.. So they started the 3 limit now to count down it would seem.

But each officer or location is a law unto himself of course.
 
screamingeagle said:
According to the above they must have repealed Police Order 777/2551?? Does anyone know the new one??
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Which says ??
I find the fingerprint requirement at all immigration points by the end of this year interesting.
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He says they wish to.. But need a budget, and then to to buy the equipment, and then need to program the system.. I will be stunned if there is fingerprint machines, working, by year end.

Not that it matters, they have systems already that dont work (RFID passport scans, machine readable code etc).. Its all window dressing.
 
LivinLOS said:
Which says ??

A Police Order: (quoting) - Defines the conditions and criteria for consideration of an Aliens application for temporary stay ...........................
Until a new police order is issued the old one must stay in force. Otherwise all conjecture is purely that and not much more than BS.
An example is it defines the criteria for a follow visa which by the way is available for for dejure and defacto spouses.

I would love to see an official statement where they have changed the follow visa financial requirements back to the 800k per person.

The current one has been in effect since 2551. All of the current issues with border runs is an enforcement of existing rules.
Individual OIC's at border crossing enforce as they see fit.
http://www.immigration.go.th/nov2004/doc/temporarystay/policy777-2551_en.pdf


He says they wish to.. But need a budget, and then to to buy the equipment, and then need to program the system.. I will be stunned if there is fingerprint machines, working, by year end.

Not that it matters, they have systems already that dont work (RFID passport scans, machine readable code etc).. Its all window dressing.
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The fingerprint issue has been active for 4 years now and keeps going into hiding. One news article says they have the 340m and one says they are asking for it. I doubt that it has been budgeted
and even if it was whether they could implement by years end.

As said above the current systems cannot work when they are dependent on criminals names not being changed where as fingerprints are harder to get around.
 
LivinLOS said:
Think of all the 100s of offshore oil workers on 28/28 rotations, who go direct Thailand to work and back home again for whom getting a visa is almost impossible around work schedule.. Even the married ones have a very hard time doing the non imm Os as they have to go once for the meeting and once a month later to collect, with no leeway on timing. Immigration needs to qualify what they mean by back to back and how long a gap in between must be.
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Not sure if this would help the oil workers or other people or not but there is a thing like the APEC Bussiness Travel Card (see: APEC Business Travel Card - Asia-Pacific Economic Cooperation. A friend has one and he says it is very easy/handy to have one as everytime he enters Thailand he automatically gets 90 days and he can bypass the long queue of people waiting to have their passports checked.
 
KTMphil said:
Is yours valid for the extent of your life time?
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Ive had it for 8 years now so, yes valid for life and doesn't have any monthly/yearly limitations. Occasionally you see them for sale in various classified ads, however if you purchase one from someone else I believe it only becomes valid for 30 years.
You'll hear the auld foggy's spouting ponzy scheme, it'll get shut-down blah blah blah- to date its still motoring on, I use most of the privileges and I reckon over the years ive broken even. Id be a liar if I said I never got it for the visa. The last time immigration brought in all these silly rules (back when i entered the scheme) I couldn't be bothered with border runs and monitoring how many entries I had in 6 months etc etc so I joined. Ive definitely benefitted from it, there's no visa hassles at all, albeit at a price. The current costs for the membership and limitations I would say its not worth it anymore but it may be of use for someone.

Its not for everyone and I only posted it as an option...........
 
Set up by Tourism Authority of Thailand:


As part of the Tourism Authority of Thailand, this exclusive club has access to privileges that money alone cannot buy. Thailand Elite is the world's first country membership programme with benefits for connections, privileges, recognition, and much more.




Come joining the world's first national membership programme, and experience the unprecedented privileges at golf courses, spas, hotels, health facilities, personal assistances, and much more throughout Thailand; as well as benefits for immigration, leisure, and business.




johnnysneds said:
Ive had it for 8 years now so, yes valid for life and doesn't have any monthly/yearly limitations. Occasionally you see them for sale in various classified ads, however if you purchase one from someone else I believe it only becomes valid for 30 years.
You'll hear the auld foggy's spouting ponzy scheme, it'll get shut-down blah blah blah- to date its still motoring on, I use most of the privileges and I reckon over the years ive broken even. Id be a liar if I said I never got it for the visa. The last time immigration brought in all these silly rules (back when i entered the scheme) I couldn't be bothered with border runs and monitoring how many entries I had in 6 months etc etc so I joined. Ive definitely benefitted from it, there's no visa hassles at all, albeit at a price. The current costs for the membership and limitations I would say its not worth it anymore but it may be of use for someone.

Its not for everyone and I only posted it as an option...........
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The APEC card was great:-

As long as you are not Aussie. They changed the rules 2 years ago to set an example for the rest of APEC members so that it is much harder to get.

Effectively you now have to be the CEO, COO or CFO of a company bringing in more than $A1m to Oz or of a Forbes listed company. Its a right crock now
and typical of Aussie bureaucracies of the strategic effect Australia has in the region. Obviously no one else followed suit.
 
screamingeagle said:
The APEC card was great:-

As long as you are not Aussie. They changed the rules 2 years ago to set an example for the rest of APEC members so that it is much harder to get.

Effectively you now have to be the CEO, COO or CFO of a company bringing in more than $A1m to Oz or of a Forbes listed company. Its a right crock now
and typical of Aussie bureaucracies of the strategic effect Australia has in the region. Obviously no one else followed suit.
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Or you pay someone in sukhumvit about 12k baht last I heard..

Those base you as a Hong Kong expat on the APEC system.. Working for the people who put up the money. 3 years and 90 days entry.
 
More worrying is reports just in from the northern border of someone doing a visa run on a double entry tourist visa, totally legit, and being held for 5 hours told he was working and barely let back in. Only his first time and one of the apparent big problems was he was renting a condo not having a hotel.

Yesterdays statement by Phuket immigration clearly included tourist visas as well as just visa exempt stamps.

We will see where this all leads.
 
Re the Elite card.. You can also pay 500k for 5 years elite card membership, but not golf and spa, only the visa option and a limited (but still 24 ??) airport transfers.

At 100k a year, not that shabby a way to do it fully legal.
 
Sounds like a loop hole might be to stay in a hotel in say Chiang Mai the day before a visa run is done to Mae Sai & show the receipt for the hotel stay, the visa runner then resembles a tourist?
 
Sounds a bit crazy if legit multiple entry TR's are being issued.

If you're staying for 6-9 months a leased residence makes sense.
 
We will see.. Right now theres no enforcement at all at poipet.. None at Sadao.. Confused enforcement at Ranong (will allow 3 visa exempt entries).. Then hard enforcement but for more than any of the 'chiefs' are claiming at the northern borders.

The common thread seems to be, no more using visa exempt or even tourist visas for non tourism people.
 
LivinLOS said:
Or you pay someone in sukhumvit about 12k baht last I heard..

Those base you as a Hong Kong expat on the APEC system.. Working for the people who put up the money. 3 years and 90 days entry.
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A/
But it is passport dependent. Wonder how that gets around it. This is a quote and I cannot verify accuracy:
[h=3]Hong Kong All Hong Kong permanent residents who are bona fide frequent business travellers are able to apply for the card through the Immigration Department upon submission of form ID900, regardless of whether they are Chinese citizens, as long as they have never committed a criminal offence and have never been denied entry into another APEC participating economy. The card costs HKD427.[SUP][8][/SUP][/h]
B/ Do you have any verification of the financial requirement change to the follow visa? I have checked around and can only confirm it was still 800k by the primary party only
and that was of early this year.
 
I am not sure you understand fully.. This isnt what you might call an 'official channel'.. And by using the HK resident way any passport can claim that process.. Its not legit and would worry me, but they were going for beer money and I vaguely know a couple of people who were using it successfully.

B I will have a dig later.. But this was for sure announced, I am unsure (as it doesnt fit me) if they then relaxed on it.

- - - Updated - - -

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/686171-retirement-visa-extension-restrictions-for-foreign-married-couples/
 
LivinLOS said:
I am not sure you understand fully.. This isnt what you might call an 'official channel'.. And by using the HK resident way any passport can claim that process.. Its not legit and would worry me, but they were going for beer money and I vaguely know a couple of people who were using it successfully.

B I will have a dig later.. But this was for sure announced, I am unsure (as it doesnt fit me) if they then relaxed on it.

- - - Updated - - -

Retirement visa extension restrictions for foreign married couples - Thai visas, residency and work permits - Thailand Forum[/QUOT

Understand fully. I was just wondering how they got past the HK PR issue. Probably waste of time conjecturing. Still pissed off
with Oz Holy Than Thou attitude.

Missed the Follow notice by Lite Beer. I was sure he also published one earlier that month that this one contradicted but may have been mistaken.

Hate saying it to you by Thanks.
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Yeah re the APEC cards.. I am pretty comfortable bending the easy rules, getting a long term study visa when not studying, or a few of the easier ways.. But This one seemed a step that I would need to have few other options. Paying cash for some backroom deal and a card given.. How do I know what an APEC card should look like ?? Or if its a real or forged one ?? Or if your 'in the system computer' etc etc.. It all seemed a bit too much risk.

The 2 people I semi know, they used it successfully but commented the immigration themselves were unsure, had to call a supervisor over, and were not up on the APEC 90 day deal.

If I was without visa, I would look at getting a non imm B (via an invite letter) and 90 day visa runs, or the full whack of paying some tax and being employed (to do nothing) the latter of which at least puts you on the PR route after 3 years, maybe unlikely but still its on the road.

The ED visa exists, but feels like a hassle with 90 day extensions and I bet thats the next one to clamp down on.. Or the 500k elite card for 5 years option.

Its not like theres not multiple ways, but in every situation, every rule, every consult worldwide, has seemingly become harder, more difficult, more expensive, etc. Not a single rule I can think of in the last 5 or 10 years has made it easier.
 
There's several people in Chiang Mai that have just gone to the Thai Embassy, in Savannakhet, Laos & with an "invitation letter" from a Thai company to work & have been able to get Non-Imm B (Work visa for Thailand) issued! You don't even have to then finish the process and get a legitimate a Thai work permit, it's a real joke! Surely they will clamp this loophole too?
 
From Bangkok Post today;

"The Chief of the Immigration Bureau said abuse of tourist visas by South Koreans, Russians and Vietnamese working
illegally in Thailand was the main motivation for cracking down on cross-border visa runs."
 
KTMphil said:
There's several people in Chiang Mai that have just gone to the Thai Embassy, in Savannakhet, Laos & with an "invitation letter" from a Thai company to work & have been able to get Non-Imm B (Work visa for Thailand) issued! You don't even have to then finish the process and get a legitimate a Thai work permit, it's a real joke! Surely they will clamp this loophole too?
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Sounds too easy doesn't it?

My APEC card expired recently and I have no burning need or lack of options for the next step but I like to explore all options.

LoS:- I often found Immigration unsure on how to process the card. I am trying to find mine but it seems to have gone into hiding. If it turns up I scan & send.
Some literature says the card is machine readable but I do not remember it having a mag strip.
 
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