COMPLETED -The Umpung Tung Yai Naresuan jungle track

Nice photos Jack, first time ive seen the bike laid down on the raft!


just back from Thung Yai again, starting rain in the jungle but fun.<img src="http://www.rideasia.net/motorcycle-forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=17271"/><img src="http://www.rideasia.net/motorcycle-forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=17272"/><img src="http://www.rideasia.net/motorcycle-forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=17273"/><img src="http://www.rideasia.net/motorcycle-forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=17274"/><img src="http://www.rideasia.net/motorcycle-forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=17275"/>

Never sent from an I-Phone
 
A while ago someone asked if I had some more information on the Loe-Si people living in Le Tong Ku (or Lay Tong Ku which means "the village above the waterfall). This is village is located towards the end of the offroad trip from Sangkhlaburi to Boeng Kloeng where the paved road 1288 starts which leads to Umphang. There is not much info readily available but here is some of the information I have been able to find:

The "Loe-Si" sect in Le Tong Ku
information based upon the book "Three Pagodas - A journey down the Thai-Burmese border" by Christian Goodden. Jungle Books (Halesworth 1996) and other sources

The Loe-Si sect are of the Lagu (Talarku, Telakhon) denomination and they generally can be found on both sides of the border between Thailand and Myanmar. Around 1996 there were 31 Loe-Si villages with 6 of them located in Thailand. The Loe-Si cultists are devout people with austere practices. They can always be recognized by their characteristic topknots.

Loe-Si cultists with their characteristic topknots with Mike Hohman in Le Tong Ku (picture Robert Hiekel)
DSC07551Compressed.jpg


DSC07552Compressed.jpg


As a sub-group of the Karen people, they wear Karen costumes but with some modifications. While the Karen are animists or Christian, the Loe-Si Karens are besically Buddhists but interwoven with animism and shamanism and overlaid with the Loe-Si cult and in Le Tong Ku again overlaid with the Elephant-Tusk cult

The word Loe-Si (or in Thai Roe-sii or Rishii) signifies a holy man, an ascetic hermit or a jungle sage with magical powers and the Loe-Si cultists believe in their Loe-Si (sometimes also called Pu Chaik) similar to Thai people believing in the Lord Buddha. The Loe-Si cult shares the same 5 central precepts but unlike the Thai interpretation of the Buddhist First Precept which says that you should not kill animals, the Loe-Si believe that you can, as long as it is for eating. However, they do not eat domestic animals like cows or buffaloes for reasons unknown but they do eat wild animals.

In Le Tong Ku they have four main religeous ceremonies - Songkran, Prior to the rainy season, After the rainy season and After the harvest. In addition every month they have three ceremonies, Full Moon, Half Moon and New Moon. The monastery consisted (in 1996) out of 5 buildings - the original Wat, a building housing the older disciples, a meeting place, a shed housing the elephant tusks and a storage building for rice and food. In addition to the area with the 5 buildings, the monastery owns another 30 Rai of land.

Here is a comment from a young guy who recently installed a Solar-PV system in Le Tong Ku Health Center:
At this shrine they worship a pair of enormous elephant tusks, intricately carved with animals and other designs. I’d never seen tusks even close to as big as the ones in this shrine. There was also a Buddha in the shrine, underneath the tusks. I asked our guide if they worshiped the Buddha as well. He said no, that it was only there so that Buddhists who come to visit “feel more comfortable.” Bizarre, no?

The Elephant tusks and the Buddha (Picture Robert Hiekel)
DSC07550Compressed.jpg


While approaching the compound, there is an invisible line beyond no-one can go without taking off their shoes. Beyond this line there is a second invisible line marking the area which is off-limit to women. There is a third invisible line just behind the wat, which demarcates the sacred area running up to a cliff (the Bat-Cliff) where only the Loe-Si and his disciples can go.

When Loe-Si people transgress, they are first admonished and then, it they repeat the transgression, their hair us cut off and they are paraded round the village. On a third occurrence, they are expelled from the village and the sect/cult. However, the wrongdoer can be readmitted by apologizing, by being purified with holy water and by bringing 5 kgs. of pure beeswax, flowers, incense and a candle. It should be noted that when you see someone with their hair cut off in the village it does not automatically indicate that it is a wrongdoer but they just might have cut it off to get rid of lice or fleas or due to other ailments. When villagers die, they are not cremated as is Buddhist practice but buried. Likewise domestic animals are buried also as the people will not eat them.
The Loe-Si (picture by Daniel Gerbault)
The Ru-Sii picture by Daniel Gerbault.png

Before the Loe-si or Pu Chaik dies, he normally will nominate his successor but, if that has not happened, a meeting will be called by all the Loe-Si villages in Thailand and Myanmar to nominate the successor.
 
One other thing about this trip (most people come with bikes well prepared for offroad trips) and while helpful, it is not a 100% necessity. Jack, the guide, who has been used by all the people who have done this trip, came the first time on his Honda step-through with tyres which had seen better days.

DSC07527.jpg


DSC07532.jpg


From the Suria river crossing he rode two-up with the bamboo raft man to Boeng Kloeng to see Mike and Robert of and then rode back (again two-up) to the Suria river with the rafts man and back home.

DSC07533.jpg


A big hat off to Jack for making this all possible for us.:RO Jack knows the area very well and speaks the local languages, takes care of a place to sleep, brings and prepares the food and can find people to help out if things go a bit haywire and above all is a very likable guy. So, in case anyone wants to do this trip, please contact him as he is one of the best, if not the best, to have along to guide you on your trip
 
Hahaha not only were the tires on Jack's Honda Dream worn out, the rear sprocket was almost completely worn out
as well.... On steep hills you could hear his chain slipping on the sprocket. :-) At the end of the first ride, in Pueng Kleung , he had to have a new chain and sprocket put on just to get back home.
 
Hahaha not only were the tires on Jack's Honda Dream worn out, the rear sprocket was almost completely worn out
as well.... On steep hills you could hear his chain slipping on the sprocket. :-) At the end of the first ride, in Pueng Kleung , he had to have a new chain and sprocket put on just to get back home.

The boatman had to push him up those steep hills north of the river... Remember, he came all the way to Peung Kleung with us.

Jack a good man, that's for sure Auke, he made it all possible, and continues to do so. That's a great endorsement above, i soundly second it. And Auke, thanks for the info on the Ruei Sii, i had heard the term, and seen the tusks, but didn't know much more than that. On the last trip i met a real one, a real shaman, but he wouldn't let me take his picture. A shame, he was really wild looking.

Here's a shot you might not have seen, the waterfall boys... from the 1st trip.
796766788_knuMk-L.jpg

Mike
 
Aule - another fantastic post containing data that is often a bit difficult to uncover, thank you.
 
Thanks Jack for posting these pictures - this trip must have been very slippery as I see studs in and chains around the tyres
 
A while ago someone asked if I had some more information on the Loe-Si people living in Le Tong Ku (or Lay Tong Ku which means "the village above the waterfall). This is village is located towards the end of the offroad trip from Sangkhlaburi to Boeng Kloeng where the paved road 1288 starts which leads to Umphang

Found some more pictures taken and posted by LekFREE of people living in Le Tong Ku. Enjoy!

portrait of le-tong-khu
 
What a fantastic set of photo's LR! This is what I like about this forum, there is much more to do and learn here than just how many roads and trails we can ride & find, or how many tracks and photos of food we can gather. We actually care about the culture and history of where we ride. You do some of the best in depth research LR and pass on the information for the rest of us to enjoy. We all really appreciate your time and efforts.

Found some more pictures taken and posted by LekFREE of people living in Le Tong Ku. Enjoy!

portrait of le-tong-khu

Below from 19 May 2013, 19:31 (copying of your work is nothing but flattery http://www.rideasia.net/motorcycle-...ng-yai-naresuan-jungle-track-6.html#post28813)

A while ago someone asked if I had some more information on the Loe-Si people living in Le Tong Ku (or Lay Tong Ku which means "the village above the waterfall). This is village is located towards the end of the offroad trip from Sangkhlaburi to Boeng Kloeng where the paved road 1288 starts which leads to Umphang. There is not much info readily available but here is some of the information I have been able to find:

The "Loe-Si" sect in Le Tong Ku
information based upon the book "Three Pagodas - A journey down the Thai-Burmese border" by Christian Goodden. Jungle Books (Halesworth 1996) and other sources

The Loe-Si sect are of the Lagu (Talarku, Telakhon) denomination and they generally can be found on both sides of the border between Thailand and Myanmar. Around 1996 there were 31 Loe-Si villages with 6 of them located in Thailand. The Loe-Si cultists are devout people with austere practices. They can always be recognized by their characteristic topknots.

Loe-Si cultists with their characteristic topknots with Mike Hohman in Le Tong Ku (picture Robert Hiekel)
DSC07551Compressed.jpg


DSC07552Compressed.jpg


As a sub-group of the Karen people, they wear Karen costumes but with some modifications. While the Karen are animists or Christian, the Loe-Si Karens are besically Buddhists but interwoven with animism and shamanism and overlaid with the Loe-Si cult and in Le Tong Ku again overlaid with the Elephant-Tusk cult

The word Loe-Si (or in Thai Roe-sii or Rishii) signifies a holy man, an ascetic hermit or a jungle sage with magical powers and the Loe-Si cultists believe in their Loe-Si (sometimes also called Pu Chaik) similar to Thai people believing in the Lord Buddha. The Loe-Si cult shares the same 5 central precepts but unlike the Thai interpretation of the Buddhist First Precept which says that you should not kill animals, the Loe-Si believe that you can, as long as it is for eating. However, they do not eat domestic animals like cows or buffaloes for reasons unknown but they do eat wild animals.

In Le Tong Ku they have four main religeous ceremonies - Songkran, Prior to the rainy season, After the rainy season and After the harvest. In addition every month they have three ceremonies, Full Moon, Half Moon and New Moon. The monastery consisted (in 1996) out of 5 buildings - the original Wat, a building housing the older disciples, a meeting place, a shed housing the elephant tusks and a storage building for rice and food. In addition to the area with the 5 buildings, the monastery owns another 30 Rai of land.

Here is a comment from a young guy who recently installed a Solar-PV system in Le Tong Ku Health Center:
At this shrine they worship a pair of enormous elephant tusks, intricately carved with animals and other designs. I'd never seen tusks even close to as big as the ones in this shrine. There was also a Buddha in the shrine, underneath the tusks. I asked our guide if they worshiped the Buddha as well. He said no, that it was only there so that Buddhists who come to visit "feel more comfortable." Bizarre, no?

The Elephant tusks and the Buddha (Picture Robert Hiekel)
DSC07550Compressed.jpg


While approaching the compound, there is an invisible line beyond no-one can go without taking off their shoes. Beyond this line there is a second invisible line marking the area which is off-limit to women. There is a third invisible line just behind the wat, which demarcates the sacred area running up to a cliff (the Bat-Cliff) where only the Loe-Si and his disciples can go.

When Loe-Si people transgress, they are first admonished and then, it they repeat the transgression, their hair us cut off and they are paraded round the village. On a third occurrence, they are expelled from the village and the sect/cult. However, the wrongdoer can be readmitted by apologizing, by being purified with holy water and by bringing 5 kgs. of pure beeswax, flowers, incense and a candle. It should be noted that when you see someone with their hair cut off in the village it does not automatically indicate that it is a wrongdoer but they just might have cut it off to get rid of lice or fleas or due to other ailments. When villagers die, they are not cremated as is Buddhist practice but buried. Likewise domestic animals are buried also as the people will not eat them.
The Loe-Si (picture by Daniel Gerbault)
View attachment 17276

Before the Loe-si or Pu Chaik dies, he normally will nominate his successor but, if that has not happened, a meeting will be called by all the Loe-Si villages in Thailand and Myanmar to nominate the successor.
 
copying of your work is nothing but flattery

Yeah, saw that also - a word for word copy of part of my post (http://www.rideasia.net/motorcycle-...ng-yai-naresuan-jungle-track-6.html#post28813) appearing as written by a guy on the other forum without quoting the source (The Missing Link- Sangkhlaburi to Umphang and back! - Page 5)

Did not know what to think but after some reflection, I had a good laugh about it as I could see his dilemma - Quote the original source as being RideAsia and then, as he appears to be a moderator, having to warn himself not to post anything related to RideAsia is a BIG NO NO on the GT Forum.
 
Found some more pictures taken and posted by LekFREE of people living in Le Tong Ku. Enjoy!

portrait of le-tong-khu

These are great! Here are a few of my shots of people from Lay Tung Ku

West Thailand Adventure - a set on Flickr

Mike

Yeah, saw that also - a word for word copy of part of my post (http://www.rideasia.net/motorcycle-...ng-yai-naresuan-jungle-track-6.html#post28813) appearing as written by a guy on the other forum without quoting the source (The Missing Link- Sangkhlaburi to Umphang and back! - Page 5)

Did not know what to think but after some reflection, I had a good laugh about it as I could see his dilemma - Quote the original source as being RideAsia and then, as he appears to be a moderator, having to warn himself not to post anything related to RideAsia is a BIG NO NO on the GT Forum.

I guess his signature takes giveth to a whole new level "The Large Print Giveth, and the Small Print Taketh Away" maybe it should read stealeth :LOL
 
Did not know what to think but after some reflection, I had a good laugh about it as I could see his dilemma - Quote the original source as being RideAsia and then, as he appears to be a moderator, having to warn himself not to post anything related to RideAsia is a BIG NO NO on the GT Forum.

No surprises there.
Arrogant, ignorant, lazy and stupid.
"Shame on you".
 
Guys, keep it a bit civil please - I am not happy about the whole thing but can also see the funny side of it.
 
The boatman had to push him up those steep hills north of the river... Remember, he came all the way to Peung Kleung with us.

Jack a good man, that's for sure Auke, he made it all possible, and continues to do so. That's a great endorsement above, i soundly second it. And Auke, thanks for the info on the Ruei Sii, i had heard the term, and seen the tusks, but didn't know much more than that. On the last trip i met a real one, a real shaman, but he wouldn't let me take his picture. A shame, he was really wild looking.

Here's a shot you might not have seen, the waterfall boys... from the 1st trip.
View attachment 17282

Mike

Hahah I like this photo, showing a bit of attitude here...." Yeah yeah we are bad to the bone, just knocked off this astounding ride...."
 
More fun in the puddles.
 
Just a bump of another thread which provides some more info on permits officially required to enter the Thung Yai Naresuan Park at the checkpoints (guess Jack normally circumvents the checkpoints) - http://www.rideasia.net/motorcycle-...47-umpung-tung-yai-naresuan-jungle-track.html

Below is the address of the Office which provides the permits.

Conseration Area Management Office 3
54/10, Khai Luang Rd., Ban Pong
Ban Pong, Ratchaburi 70110
0-3221-1025
 
Pounce and Bob are starting to head down there tomorrow, heading south using trails (from Chiang Mai), the current rainy weather will make things greasy. A few of us are headed down to meet up with them in a few days.
 
Old thread I know.

Completed this track last month and eager to return. Guy I was planning the return trip with during the first week of April can't make it now so wondering if any other riders here are interested?

Not in a rush and I'll be starting and finishing in Kanchanaburi, although that is flexible. Would also be interested in taking the Khliti track whilst there.

Let me know if you are interested before the 18/03 as that's when I'll be visiting the Forestry office on my next trip to Kanchanaburi and applying for permits.

image.jpg

Cheers.
 
A while ago someone asked if I had some more information on the Loe-Si people living in Le Tong Ku (or Lay Tong Ku which means "the village above the waterfall). This is village is located towards the end of the offroad trip from Sangkhlaburi to Boeng Kloeng where the paved road 1288 starts which leads to Umphang. There is not much info readily available but here is some of the information I have been able to find:

The "Loe-Si" sect in Le Tong Ku
information based upon the book "Three Pagodas - A journey down the Thai-Burmese border" by Christian Goodden. Jungle Books (Halesworth 1996) and other sources

The Loe-Si sect are of the Lagu (Talarku, Telakhon) denomination and they generally can be found on both sides of the border between Thailand and Myanmar. Around 1996 there were 31 Loe-Si villages with 6 of them located in Thailand. The Loe-Si cultists are devout people with austere practices. They can always be recognized by their characteristic topknots.

Loe-Si cultists with their characteristic topknots with Mike Hohman in Le Tong Ku (picture Robert Hiekel)
DSC07551Compressed.jpg


DSC07552Compressed.jpg


As a sub-group of the Karen people, they wear Karen costumes but with some modifications. While the Karen are animists or Christian, the Loe-Si Karens are besically Buddhists but interwoven with animism and shamanism and overlaid with the Loe-Si cult and in Le Tong Ku again overlaid with the Elephant-Tusk cult

The word Loe-Si (or in Thai Roe-sii or Rishii) signifies a holy man, an ascetic hermit or a jungle sage with magical powers and the Loe-Si cultists believe in their Loe-Si (sometimes also called Pu Chaik) similar to Thai people believing in the Lord Buddha. The Loe-Si cult shares the same 5 central precepts but unlike the Thai interpretation of the Buddhist First Precept which says that you should not kill animals, the Loe-Si believe that you can, as long as it is for eating. However, they do not eat domestic animals like cows or buffaloes for reasons unknown but they do eat wild animals.

In Le Tong Ku they have four main religeous ceremonies - Songkran, Prior to the rainy season, After the rainy season and After the harvest. In addition every month they have three ceremonies, Full Moon, Half Moon and New Moon. The monastery consisted (in 1996) out of 5 buildings - the original Wat, a building housing the older disciples, a meeting place, a shed housing the elephant tusks and a storage building for rice and food. In addition to the area with the 5 buildings, the monastery owns another 30 Rai of land.

Here is a comment from a young guy who recently installed a Solar-PV system in Le Tong Ku Health Center:

At this shrine they worship a pair of enormous elephant tusks, intricately carved with animals and other designs. I’d never seen tusks even close to as big as the ones in this shrine. There was also a Buddha in the shrine, underneath the tusks. I asked our guide if they worshiped the Buddha as well. He said no, that it was only there so that Buddhists who come to visit “feel more comfortable.” Bizarre, no?

The Elephant tusks and the Buddha (Picture Robert Hiekel)
DSC07550Compressed.jpg


While approaching the compound, there is an invisible line beyond no-one can go without taking off their shoes. Beyond this line there is a second invisible line marking the area which is off-limit to women. There is a third invisible line just behind the wat, which demarcates the sacred area running up to a cliff (the Bat-Cliff) where only the Loe-Si and his disciples can go.

When Loe-Si people transgress, they are first admonished and then, it they repeat the transgression, their hair us cut off and they are paraded round the village. On a third occurrence, they are expelled from the village and the sect/cult. However, the wrongdoer can be readmitted by apologizing, by being purified with holy water and by bringing 5 kgs. of pure beeswax, flowers, incense and a candle. It should be noted that when you see someone with their hair cut off in the village it does not automatically indicate that it is a wrongdoer but they just might have cut it off to get rid of lice or fleas or due to other ailments. When villagers die, they are not cremated as is Buddhist practice but buried. Likewise domestic animals are buried also as the people will not eat them.

The Loe-Si (picture by Daniel Gerbault)
View attachment 17276

Before the Loe-si or Pu Chaik dies, he normally will nominate his successor but, if that has not happened, a meeting will be called by all the Loe-Si villages in Thailand and Myanmar to nominate the successor.


From the Bangkok Post of today 11 June 2017: Ancient carved tusks stolen from Karen village

Authorities are trying to track down a pair of centuries-old carved elephant ivory tusks stolen from a Karen village in Umphang district. The tusks, said to be between 400 and 500 years old, vanished from a pavilion at Letongkhu village in tambon Mae Chan on Thursday night, said Pratheep Porthiem, the chief of Umphang district. The elaborately carved artefacts are nearly two metres long and have great historical value for Karen tribesmen as they were sacred objects in the village, he said. After being alerted by the local leader, district authorities sought cooperation from the military, police and other agencies to help find the stolen items. All entrances to the village have been closed as the search for the stolen tusks continues, said Mr Pratheep. But so far, there are no clues as to what might have happened.

2351526.jpg

Karen tribesmen show off carved ivory tusks, considered sacred objects, in a picture taken at an earlier ceremony in Letongkhu village in Umphang district of Tak. (Photo by Assawin Pinitwong)​

Source: http://www.bangkokpost.com/news/general/1266262/ancient-tusks-stolen-from-karen-village.
 
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