Laos The In's & Out's to Long Cheng (Tieng) Lima Site 20A

[bsacbob]

Since most of the boxes had been ticked riding in Southern Laos i decided to chance my luck and take a route through Long Cheng and continue to Phonsavan. After slogging my way up route 13S and 11 i decided to stop for the night in Thabok at the Tong and Mark GH good value at 50K kip a night and good choice of nearby food on offer and especially cold beer..



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There is a gas station just north over the bridge but i counted numerous fuel drums along the way so fuel is not an issue.

On starting up the trail i noticed this bridge over the Nam Mang, not sure of the story here.

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The route is like much in Laos some sections paved then gravel then dirt etc..

I noticed a sign for the Tad Leuk waterfall so with time on my hands i checked it out, look's like a good camping option with a new restaurant being built and toilet facilities although the dry season makes it looks not so impressive.

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This route in December would be spectacular with great scenery although shrouded in the April smog.

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Reaching the huge Phou Bia mining area i chatted with some workers and was told the mine is good for another five years before it's non profit making and would be closed.

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As i expect after passing the mine the roads conditions became constant broken rocks and gravel, but the scenery got more interesting.

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Look's like i'm getting closer.

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Some major roadworks underway north of the mine.

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Beautiful karst mountain ranges into view.

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Pre rainy season preparations.

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What's this way off in the distance.

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As they got closer it was two brothers carrying what looked like the laundry.

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The eldest was finding it hard going.

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Pretty well graded in some sections.

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Next i spotted this young girl sheltering from the sun.

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Closer inspection revealed two girls of maybe four years old carrying their younger brothers or sisters.

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They wasted no time running away from the strange farang.

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Lot's of small communities in this region.

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Major investment.

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My goal almost on sight.

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More kid's running from the farang.

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Pulling over the ridge i had arrived, the first thing that struck me was the total lack of tree's on the northern ridge line, presumably as a result of American air dropped defoliants and the strange quietness of the place.

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I rode into town and stopped at the local restaurant where i quickly got the attention of the two bar hostesses and ordered some food.

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Got chatting with Mr Tuk who works on the roadways and asked if there was an issue if i stayed the night "no problem" he told me and asked if i wanted to join him later for a drink, he pointed me towards the two guesthouses (only found one), up to this point the only evidence there was army around was the sound of the very loud dinner bell !! So i bid my farewells to Mt Tuk and the young ladies and promised to return later

Quickly rode onto the runway to get a proof shot or two.

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Long Cheng Abandoned Wat

Before i got settled i decided to ride up to the strange abandoned Wat on the hill and take some pictures although i was told not to go inside, i was also told by several people later the Wat held bad luck and they would not use it again something to do with General Vang Pao, and they expected to build a new Wat and bring monks back to Long Cheng for the first time in many years.

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I headed to the Guesthouse and was greeted by a smiling Mr Saysamone (the owner) who also asked if i would like to join him for a drink after i had cleaned up, look's like it was to be an interesting evening.

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Scrubbed up i walked the site and was not bothered by anyone (other than a shot of Lao Lao) and walked feely taking pictures.

New market place next to remains of old building.

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Control tower next to the army camp.

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Old market area.

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Remains next to the old Wat.

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Old crane in compound with other old military machines.

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Just on the roadside next to the guesthouse.

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Lot's of inquisitive faces.

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Ruins everywhere.

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War metal being put to good use.

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Feel like i'm being watched.

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Lot's of old shipping containers left behind.

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Almost every house had made use of old scrap in some way.

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Old munition cases everywhere.

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Airstrip looking from the ramp end with the army camp on the left.

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More Lao Lao on offer.

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Very photogenic.

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This guy had some pretty good skill's, even in flip flop's.

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Compound area.

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Not sure what this.

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Or this.

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The old Wat overlooking the strip.

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Army camp situated on the ramp end of the airstrip.

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More scrap.

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My host Mr Saysamone, great guy despite his poor choice of shirt !

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I spent the night in the company of Mr Saysamone and introduced him to Jack Daniels and inturn he showed me the various drinking and eating venues in town into the early hours. The next morning i awoke to grey black skies, i had thought to stay one more night but the thought of the unknown trail to Phonsavan in my mind i decided wisely as it turned out to push on and leave Long Cheng for another visit, indeed a strange magical place i could have spent a week here in the company of these very welcoming people..


Northbound to come .......

 

[KTMphil]

Great report there Bob, looks like this will be a popular venue now with a lot of history.

 

[brake034]

Great report and pictures Bob, thanks for taking us with you!

 

[Pounce]

Thanks Bob, interesting story with nice pics, I hope I can get to go there one day.

 

[bsacbob]

Waking up the next morning with the hangover from hell (beer Lao Jack Daniels & Lao Lao don't mix well) Mr Saysamone invited me for breakfast, we strolled up to the market both vowing never to drink again. After some coffee and Vietnamese tea i was feeling slightly better had a haircut (and why not) and debated on the 100 km or so ride North, as i said before i could have stopped for a week the place has a calming feel, plus a local teacher wanted to show me some caves, tempted very tempted but the sound of thunder on the hilltops made the decision for me. So it was goodbye to Mr Saysamone he had been a great host and i promised to return again with a new bottle of Jack Daniels !

Riding through the Northerly part of town more war scrap being put to good use.

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Once outside of town it turned to the usual graded rocky surface.

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Some good elevated spots, pity about the viz.

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Still pretty good even if it rained.

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Familiar slash and burn in progress.

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This was the only spot i may have got into trouble i stopped across a ravine to take a picture of a small settlement, a guy was outside i wave a asked if i could take a picture, in seconds about a dozen guys all came out shouting at me so i quickly pushed off, reaching the top of the hill i snapped this zoomed picture heaven knows what they were up too.

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Stopped in Sam Thong village which had been a huge medial and army base for a drink and spotted this remarkably fresh looking bomb casing.

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Next to it was a pile of various shell and motor casings that looked way to live for me to look further...

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Again metal scrap used for housing (god bless America)

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As i left the village heading towards the Laos army camp a group of villagers arriving back all carrying knives, they all smiled so all good.

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From here the route became more freshly graded work in progress.

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Stopped by this small cave that had been oped as part of the grading works, looked pretty deep.

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Signs of erosion already not sure how this would hold up in the rainy season.

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Pretty elevated along this section.

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Dark clouds on the horizon.

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Small village coming to view in the valley.

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Wish i had stopped to explore this village a little more.

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Not shown graded trail heading South, worth exploring next time.

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The village had lot's of war scrap around, they make nice seats.

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Cluster bomb casings so i guess the place is littered with bombies.

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The landscape changed suddenly indicating i was nearing Phonsavan.

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Stopped off to take some pictures of the amphibious tank just off the roadside.

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Couldn't resist a selfie.

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Moving on i had time on my hands and sun began to shine so i headed to Khoune to see some of the old ruin's Auke had mentioned in an earlier post.

Guess this is French not sure what it is.

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New swing bridge near town.

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Old city wall.

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Old Stupa in the distance.

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To visit the two Stupa's and the wat will cost you 10,000 kip to each venue.

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The other Stupa.

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This cute Hmong girl was up there for pictures with her boyfriend i got this picture in exchange for letting him pose on my bike.

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The bombed Wat.

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The old French Era hospital, must have been a very grand place in it's day.

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Tourist stuff done i headed for Phonsavan and the Bamboozle for some nice food, sadly they are on low season opening and don't open until 5.30pm and no super breakfast for me. So it was across the road to the Simlay but not before stopping at the MAG shop to give a donation and get some more T Shirt (don't tell the wife).

Checked into the ground floor rooms and the White Orchid not bad for 80K Kip.





GPX files of the ride, taking out my little detours i would say 170km from Tambok to Long Cheng and from Long Cheng to Phonsavan around 105Km.

GpxViewer GpxViewer

 

[bsacbob]

Screen shot of route taken from Long Cheng to Phonsavan.

 

[marcusb]

Thanks Bob, great pics and write up.

- - - Updated - - -

Thanks Bob, great pics and write up.

 

[KTMphil]

Looks like it could have been a radar tracking vehicle like this one?

[/URL]DSC_2702_edited by Triangle Golden 007, on Flickr[/IMG]

 

[bsacbob]

Think you're right Phil, if you recall the pic of the drunk guy's one of them spotted me taking a picture of them and said i was a bad boy. However i did see some more outside of Phonsavan in a disused warehouse complex all locked up.

 

[roostersoverland]

so thank you. 2 Aussies following your itinerary tomorrow. on DR 650s all the way from Australia.

 

[bsacbob]

Suggest you take off your helmet before you get close to Long Cheng and have a big smile give my regards to Mr Saysamone, keep us posted how you get on..

 

[roostersoverland]

Thanks for the tip. we know someone a month or so back was turned away! Here is hoping. He said he tired both entrances.

 

[bsacbob]

Co ords for the tank N19.32392 E103.14301

 

[roostersoverland]

thanks!

 

[Just Bob]

Fantastic pics. Big thanks!

 

[bsacbob]

Interesting article to give some background to the last days of Lima 20A


5.4 Life of Refugees From Laos in Third Countries | Unforgettable Laos

 

[roostersoverland]

greetings from Mr Saysamone!

 

[bsacbob]

Co ords for the tank N19.32392 E103.14301

greetings from Mr Saysamone!

Great stuff guys have a good night. Buy him a beer for me.

 

[roostersoverland]

we have already!

 

[roostersoverland]

loved reading the article whilst here. Thanks so much!

 

[bsacbob]

He's a great host, congrats on getting there pleased I could help.

 

[roostersoverland]

Back in Phonsovan. Certainly an awe inspiring route. Scenery is spectacular, Roads interesting and varied, remote villages and a very moving experience at Long Tien. Met an 80 yo who fought alongside the Americans and rode up to The General's house. Just beat the rain!
Will post pics soon

 

[roostersoverland]

Ride to Long Tien, May 2015

Hi there.

I did want to post pics here as well in thanks for your help/tips/reports you post on this site. We have found it invaluable on our trip. However, internet speed here meant it took 2 days to load pics onto our blog. Will try to post more when we are back in Thailand.
Cheers

 

[Grathiam]

Thank you, bsacbob, for your detailed report and pictorial of Long Cheng!
It's a location many have tried to visit...and often have been previously thwarted.
Your positive interaction with the locals, especially Mr. Saysamone, may well have
eased it significantly for future visits by others.

I was surprised that, in April, you didn't encounter rain and muddy roads?

- -

 

[bsacbob]

Thank you, bsacbob, for your detailed report and pictorial of Long Cheng!
It's a location many have tried to visit...and often have been previously thwarted.
Your positive interaction with the locals, especially Mr. Saysamone, may well have
eased it significantly for future visits by others.

I was surprised that, in April, you didn't encounter rain and muddy roads?

- -

Thanks for the praise, the reason i only stayed for one night was the weather decided to take a turn for the worse and scuppered my later attempts to reach Lima 36 from two directions and sadly curtailed my trip.

 

[KTMphil]

The 1,000 CC, KTM beast made it to Long Tieng/ Chen, maybe the first 1,000 CC bike ever to get there?

... More to come

 

[KTMphil]

A view from the highly sensitive Royal Palace now a military base

Managed to get a look around the Royal Palace ... more to come

 

[roostersoverland]

Yes the view up there is awesome! We loved it and found the guys very friendly.

 

[bsacbob]

Happy everybody is enjoying the place would be nice to put links to this thread in blog pages.

 

[roostersoverland]

So it looks like it is definitely open ? what do you think? we thought maybe we were lucky to be there Labout Day weekend. Currently enjoying route 1C.

 

[bsacbob]

The place is open for tourist money for sure

 

[roostersoverland]

seems that way but also seems the military are less sensitive. Not sure they will want everyone riding up to the hill?

 

[Lone Rider]

Yes, things seem to be OK for now but you should still be careful as a guy who tried twice to go to Long Cheng in January this year had a horrible experience - he was basically arrested, spent a day at the police station being interrogated and while the police/army went through his stuff some 1.5 million Kip disappeared.

His story is here: Detained, interrogated, & pinched by Laos Police, Long Cheng secret CIA airbase | True World Travels

 

[KTMphil]

Managed to get on top of the mountain to the east of Long Tieng, which was the strategic Waing (Vang!) Pao Army's stronghold, protecting the LS 20A, U.S Airforce base from the Vietnamese Army approaching from the east. An amazing lookout 360 degrees, you could see why it was picked.


A photo from the Vang Pao Army's base, looking west towards Long Tieng

 

[KTMphil]

The beast on the Long Tieng / LS 20A runway

 

[bsacbob]

Managed to get on top of the mountain to the east of Long Tieng, which was the strategic Waing Pao Army's stronghold, protecting the LS 20A, U.S Airforce base from the Vietnamese Army approaching from the east. An amazing lookout 360 degrees, you could see why it was picked.


A photo from the Waing Pao Army's base, looking west towards Long Tieng



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Nice shots Phil, looks like you made it to the "skyline ridge" BTW It's Vang Pao not Wiang Pao 8-)

 

[KTMphil]

Looks like they cant say v's in Long Cheng!

 

[CraigBKK]

Looks like they cant say v's in Long Cheng!

I suppose it may depend upon which side you fought on...



But seriously, there is no 'vee' sound in the Lao language.
The nearest sound is this letter, , called Wo Wee. All the Lao words transliterated into English spelt with a 'V', such as 'Viang/Vieng' are based on this 'wee' sound and not our 'vee' sound.

Subsequently Lao speakers, and Thai, have problems saying V's.

 

[mactbkk]

I suppose it may depend upon which side you fought on...

View attachment 38188

But seriously, there is no 'vee' sound in the Lao language.
The nearest sound is this letter, View attachment 38203, called Wo Wee. All the Lao words transliterated into English spelt with a 'V', such as 'Viang/Vieng' are based on this 'wee' sound and not our 'vee' sound.

Subsequently Lao speakers, and Thai, have problems saying V's.

Craig

Gotta disagree with you on the V vs W sound in Lao, I definitely can hear the difference.

Here’s a Q I sent a couple of years ago to an American friend who has a PHD in linguistics with specialization in Thai and Lao. He started out as Peace Corp in Udorn long ago which is where he picked up the Issan dialect, later got the PHD. Then over the years he has lived in Laos for about 25 years. Good background.


My Q: Does Lao have a "V"?? And Thailand a "W"?


I run into this now and then. Like talking to a Thai about Vang Vieng, which might come out as "Wang Wieng."


Had lunch a couple months back with xxx and Vang Vieng visits came up in the conversation. I called him on his pronunciation of "Wang Wieng." He insisted no, they're both the same.


Not according to my ears!!


What say you?


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My PHD friend’s reply:


Mac, you heard it right, pal, a "w" in Thai and a "v" in Lao . . . usually that is..

As for English, "w" and "v" can indicate different meanings : as in 'wane' and 'vane' so English speakers hear and keep the two sounds separate.


In English, "w" is made with both lips rounded leaving a small hole for the air to pass through,


while "v" is made with the lower lip under the upper teeth and lip) with the lips un-rounded making a slight slit for the air to pass through which makes a slight bit of friction.


In Thai and Lao, you can hear sometimes a "w" and sometimes a "v" for this sound (or letter). We hear mostly a "w" in Thai and mostly a "v" in Lao.


If you hear a "w" in a speaker's pronunciation, it probably means they are Thai or someone who has learned Thai before coming to Laos.


If you hear a "v" in a speaker's pronunciation, it probably means they are Lao or Lao Isan, or someone who has learned Lao before coming to Thailand.


The Thai "w" sound is often less rounded and the Lao "v" is often less firm or less a fricative making them sound a little bit alike to our ears.


While the two sounds may be different for us, in Lao/Thai they do not change the meaning. In such cases, linguists say the sound has two variants.


They may be in free variation but we hear them as different sounds with different meanings in English..




A note on this, is, just to make things interesting and even confusing, speakers in some dialects of Lao like Phou Tai in Savannakhet,


have a "b" for the "v" and no "w". They also have a "ph" for an " f ".


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Me again. Back when I was working on the U.S. participation in the Indochinese Refugee Program here, one of the ways I IDed a person for a deeper interview is if they blew the pronunciation of such as Vang Vieng. If it came out sounding like a “w” I figured good chance he was Thai. FYI, I had lunch with my xxx friend yesterday and noted that when we were talking about Long Tieng, he still was saying “Wang Pao.”


That’s my two bits....


Mac

 

[CraigBKK]

I do agree that this letter is pronounced differently throughout the country and can be more 'vee' sounding than 'wee' sounding depending on the speaker. I have however never seen the Wo Wee transliterated into English as Vo Vee. When I pronounce this sound I play it safe and produce a 'vwer'.

I am also aware that my linguistic background, unfinished Ph.D in Thai, before formally learning Lao, does bias my ear and speaking of Lao