Don't Run Illegal Tours In Laos !! --- BEWARE!!!!!

KTMphil

KTMphil

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Location
Chiang Mai, Thailand
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2007 KTM 990 Adventure Suzuki DRZ 400
This information has been received from 2 highly reliable, independent sources about an illegal tour that went wrong in Laos & the stories match exactly, so it looks like it's true. I was in 2 minds about posting this, but I think it's important that riders are aware of what can happen, especially with so many "undercover" tours being undertaken in the region.


We've known about this from the day the problem happened, through some connections we have with the Chiang Khong border officials, but wanted to get the facts as straight as we could first - read on:


I have just spoken to someone "else" on the tour & these are his version of the events. The original report has been highly edited to give this gentleman the benefit of the doubt.


enf4.jpg


I have just spoken to someone "else" on the tour & these are his version of the events.

A tour had been organized to leave Thailand and venture into Laos using some Enfield motorcycles that are registered in Thailand, the bikes are based in north Thailand. We've been told that all the Enfield bikes to be used for the tour had out-of-date Thai registration, the Thai worker that was with the tour pointed out that this maybe a problem, while on the tour in Thailand we're told the bikes were able to become re-registered in Thailand, just before they left for Laos (we have conflicting reports about this).

The group cross the Mekong River from Chiang Khong, Thailand into Huoay Xai, Laos with the Enfield motorcycles.

enf1.jpg




enf2.jpg



Whilst clearing the motorcycles into Laos at Haouy Xai, the Laos officials see that a tour is being run and the Laos police become involved. The north Thailand guy's Thai wife, who we're told has a "confident" personality, "announces" to the Laos police officer that "they are doing a motorcycle tour in Laos & they do them all the time, don't worry"!


More Laos police/ Laos customs officials then get involved, they're asked for their Laos tour license permits and of course there isn't any. The Thai worker involved with the tour is then arrested and interviewed by the Laos customs in Huoay Xai, Laos. The Laos officials ask for a USD$ 2,000 fine for running an illegal bike tour in Laos with no licenses and permits. The Thai worker manages to negotiate the fine down to USD$ 800 and two additional fines of USD$ 200 each to people the Laos officials perceive to be in charge of managing the tour.




We're told that "people" running the tour asked the Laos Govt. officials if they went back across to Chiang Khong, Thailand & came back with all the all the Laos tour permits in order, would that be a way of avoiding the initially-asked-for USD$ 2,000 fine? The Laos Govt. officials said no and the fine would still have to be paid.


We're also told by the second gentleman on the tour that they managed to arrange a Laos tour license while they were in Huoay Xai, Laos & were then able to proceed into Laos.


We do have conflicting stories & have removed the very negative parts of the first person's account of events that we had published -- as best we can tell these are some of the facts. I'm sure we'll hear some more about this in the coming days, if anyone is going through Huoay Xai, Laos customs, see what you can find out.


Lessons to be learned here - the Laos officials are watching out big-time for illegal tours being run in Laos - DO AT YOUR OWN RISK
 
I have contacted the gentleman in north Thailand, who was "on" the tour & will correct anything in the report that isn't correct.



Having just spoken to the gentleman from north Thailand who was "on" the tour, the report above has been highly edited after talking to him.
 
Strange that they were even let out from Thailand if the registrations were outdated.

Speculation: Maybe the commis required a "Vehicle Registration Certificate". I got shafted on that one once: http://www.rideasia.net/motorcycle-...icle-registration-certificate-laos-entry.html

Laos is a communist dictatorship without any human rights. The regime does not care if their own Laos people have a pot to piss in while they drive V8 SUVs. They will not pass up any fines to do you a favor. Have your papers in order.
 
NR70 ---- we've got conflicting reports about the Thai registration, the north Thailand gentleman I just spoke to who was "on" the tour tells me that the re-registration was done just before they left for Laos.


The report you replied to has been edited since your reply as we have many different sources of information. We've removed all the very negative points as there's a conflict of the series of events from 2 different people "on" the tour.
 
KTMphil said:
NR70 ---- we've got conflicting reports about the Thai registration, the north Thailand gentleman I just spoke to who was "on" the tour tells me that the re-registration was done just before they left for Laos.


The report you replied to has been edited since your reply as we have many different sources of information.
Click to expand...


As you know phil from my experience a while back , it has to be clearly marked up in the green book or they wont let you out of Thailand ,,,,,,
 
KTMphil said:
NR70 ---- we've got conflicting reports about the Thai registration, the north Thailand gentleman I just spoke to who was "on" the tour tells me that the re-registration was done just before they left for Laos.


The report you replied to has been edited since your reply as we have many different sources of information. We've removed all the very negative points as there's a conflict of the series of events from 2 different people "on" the tour.
Click to expand...


I edited my reply accordingly.
 
A quote from one of the experienced Laos tour guide operators after reading the sequence of events:



"What you can say is that a tour with vehicles from outside of Laos, even Thai on a tour - a for profit tour and non -profit tour take a tour permit for all participants and a caravan permit issued by the Lao National Tourism Police. To get one of these permits takes at least a full day in Vientiane IF you have all the documents correct. In addition, tour with vehicles imported into Laos over 6 vehicles require a Lao Tourism Police Officer to be on the tour. A personal tour of friends is a different matter. This is international travel not set up by a tour company but perhaps some li

I am not sure about Hoiue Xai and how the office - if there is one - is set up. All caravan permits need to be done in Vientiane as far as I understand but could be mistaken.

Fines are generally much higher. The regulation is USD $ 5000 to the operator and they are also usually fined a sum per pax.

Again, regulations are somewhat vague as they don't publish this, you have to go in, apply for a permit and see what they ask for. It is really - really time consuming."
 
One of the licensed tour companies based in Laos, that operates motorcycle tours contacted me after this Royal Enfield situation, as he had a foreign motorcycle tour arriving a few days later in Laos and this is what he had to say:



"So a ripple effect from the Royal Enfields was apparent yesterday. The ******* tour should have been able to enter on the documents they had - as we've done this three times before.

No. Unhappy customs. They mentioned something about complying with ASEAN policy - a first.

All worked out with some professional intervention. No money paid. Riders on the way but a 4 hour delay at the border".




"To note, the tour was fully legal. Lao tour permits for and guide - Thai tour permits and guide were on site".
 
Just in from Phil who is now in Laos, giving an update on the situation of bike groups entering Laos.

Phil has heard from Nik.
Denied entry at Huay Khon. Not just us but also 5 Thai bikes from Bangkok. And also 2 Hong Kong tourist, a Pakistani and another two European's in cars. No reason given.

The Lao Travel Agent was livid. We will enter via Nong Khai tomorrow but separately.
Click to expand...

Phil also said he thought this will be a problem in the future even for two or three riders if they happen to be crossing with other bikers they don't know as they will be regarded as a group. Apparently now anything 5 and above may need an invitation.

May soon become like China where an agent needs to be engaged. What a fuckup! :WTF

Just 2 weeks ago 6 Malaysians crossed Chiang Khong with no problems. This new ruling certainly has a link with that incident given the time frame.


Ally

(huay khon - blame phils very smart phone!)
 
We're hearing from the licensed motorcycle tour operators in Vientiane, Laos, that ANY group of 6 or more motorcycles need to have a permit in advance to enter Laos now. This is all new and will find out more at huaoy xai tomorrow. Looks like these guys have messed it up for everyone.
 
Two of us crossed into Laos ay Huay Khon on the 11th of December, twas the smoothest crossing ever, smiles all around from both sides.

Let's hope this is just a short term knee jerk reaction to events.
 
Took a bit of work, but we're in.

N4TION ADVLux 2012. Friday 21dec

19 Bikes Entering Laos in Style. Thanks to the Malaysian Embassy and HE Dato' Ambassador.
Its been a mad 2 days. There were many theories, assumptions and advice. But as always, good things follow.
I'm riding with some really tough people. After crossing the Friendship Bridge, clearing Immigration and Customs, they still wanted to go to Vang Vieng even if it means riding Highway 13 at night.
Everyone made it to Vang Vieng safely.
A number of people deserves credit for making this happen. They will not go unmentioned.

Laos will be difficult and expensive in the future as soon as they reinforce the requirements. We will get the requirements in writing and share it here at a later date.

Cheers.


P1170980.jpg
 
4 Singapore rider's, heading into Laos this week, have been watching this thread with interest. They did have a plan of entering Laos 2 X 2, this is not an organized tour needing a Laos caravan permit, just tourists in transit.



This is the information i just received from them at the Thai / Laos international border crossing, regarding entry into Laos with foreign registered motorcycles:



".. given clearance to cross border tomorrow morning ... all 4 of us ... they confirmed 6 and more bikes are no go"




(This is at the Huay Khon (160km north of Nan city, Thailand, Muan Nguen, Laos) international border crossing).
 
Back in KL after parking our bikes securely in Vientiane. We will be flying back to Laos first week next year to continue the Segment 3 of out N4TION ADVLux Ride.

Had a chat with the Malaysian Ambassador. He was reliably informed Laos is in the process of streamlining their guidelines regarding Motor Vehicles accompanied with Driver/Rider into the country.
Current Regulations implies bikes above 150cc requires special permission to enter Laos. I think this is similar to Vietnam.
5 or more bikes are considered a 'Convoy" and requires a Caravan Permit. There is also mention on the accompaniment of a Guide 'licensed by the authorities.
There will be many more rules that will be introduced and/or enforced in the near future. In the meantime, two Malaysians got in at Chiang Khong while two others were denied entry at Vientiane.

It looks like Laos will be hit or miss until the Regulations becomes clearer. Some may get in, others may be turned away. Some borders are ok, some are not.
 
Very useful information, thank you Nick. It looks like planning a tour through Laos is now very problematic, we are suggesting to riders, that they should enter Laos only 2 at a time and 2 hours apart, we will monitor how this is working out.




nikhuzlan said:
Back in KL after parking our bikes securely in Vientiane. We will be flying back to Laos first week next year to continue the Segment 3 of out N4TION ADVLux Ride.

Had a chat with the Malaysian Ambassador. He was reliably informed Laos is in the process of streamlining their guidelines regarding Motor Vehicles accompanied with Driver/Rider into the country.
Current Regulations implies bikes above 150cc requires special permission to enter Laos. I think this is similar to Vietnam.
5 or more bikes are considered a 'Convoy" and requires a Caravan Permit. There is also mention on the accompaniment of a Guide 'licensed by the authorities.
There will be many more rules that will be introduced and/or enforced in the near future. In the meantime, two Malaysians got in at Chiang Khong while two others were denied entry at Vientiane.

It looks like Laos will be hit or miss until the Regulations becomes clearer. Some may get in, others may be turned away. Some borders are ok, some are not.
Click to expand...
 
Im re-posting this from another thread, this is all getting to be very problematic since the triggering incident, now it seems to be up to the Laos immigration officers discretion as to whether your foreign motorcycle is going to be permitted to enter Laos on temporary import. The Huay Khon (Thailand) / Muan Nguen (Laos) internation border crossing currently seems to be the most sensitive, several small groups have entered Laos with out a problem at the Chiang Khong / Huay Xai border crossing. Read on:






[h=2]I could not cross Huai Kon - Muang Ngeun (Nan) with motorbike[/h]
I did try and cross from Nan to Lao on Christmas day with my bike.
All went well on the Thai side all paperwork done in about 30 min.
Same on the Lao side, Customs,VOA and Immigration all done in about 30 min.
I walk back to my bike at the gate show the guard my paperwork, ok you go.
I stoped to buy my insurance at the LAP booth and 2 immigration guys ride up on motorbikes,OK now what?
Sir, please come back to immigration whith us.
I ride back the 150 meters from the insurance shop to immigration and go to the window.
The immigration guy wants to see all my paperwork again.
After asking me many questions, such as have you ever been to Lao before?
He tells me I cannot ride my motorbike to Lao.
You can take a Car,Bus,join a Lao motorcycle tour with a Lao guide.
But you cannot take your motorbike.
I talk with the man for several minutes asking him questions.
Is my paperwork ok? Yes.
Last week motorbikes could pass here? Yes.
Why can I not cross here today? My boss tell me no motorbike.
Is there anything I can do to cross here today, such as pay extra? No cannot take motorbike.
I told him that I had done everything including stamping into Lao and being let into the country with my bike.
You want to leave your bike here and take bus to Luang Prabang or go back to Thailand?
Can you cancel my Lao visa so I can try at Chiang Khong? No.
Can I speek with boss? He not here.
I get stamped out and go back to Thailand, all the Thai immigration are asking me questions and say you go to Chiang khong.
I cannot believe this.
They let me into Lao I even bought my insurance and wasted a visa.
Total let down.
(Photo of my bike in front of immigration in Lao after being stamped out of Lao)
Al
Al​
paperclip.png
Attached Images
12878d1356662154-i-could-not-cross-huai-kon-muang-ngeun-nan-motorbike-010.jpg

 
Information from a reliable source in Chiang Khong regarding motorcycles entering Laos at the Chiang Khong / Huay Xai border crossing as of 28th December, 2012:


"As of yesterday afternoon - it still seems ALL clear here in Chiang Khong and across into Laos... "
 
Just received this from Monica who runs the Jumbo GH in Hongsa, Xayabouri , Laos. She's 60km east of the Muan Nguen, Laos / (Nan) international border crossing:



"
Jumbo Guesthouse I contacted already the Chief of Tourism in Xayaboury province. Even two mountain bikers they refused to come into Laos. He will call me in few days, and than I speak about it. It;s a no go!!!!"
 
If you're thinking of crossing into Laos at the Huay Khon (Nan) / Muan Nguen international border crossing, it might be worth calling Mr. Khamdee, who is in the District Tourism Office Muan Ngeun, Laos.


His Laos number is +856-20 5519 0586.

By calling him you might be able to get in if he has said "yes" and they know who you are and when you're coming.
 
In the past few days;

Moose and Husref from Malaysia got in via Savannakhet. Faisal Musa got in via Chiang Khong. Three more Malaysian bikes got in via Chiang Khong.
A few rejected at Nong Khai.
Don't know how many got turned away from Huay Kon.
 
We've received this information from Monica who lives in Hongsa, Muan Nguen district, Xayabouri Province, Laos (60 km from the Nan international border crossing with Thailand):


"The Tourism Chief Officer was here at my place. They changed some regulations since the ASEM meeting in November 2012 (Vientiane, Laos). He spoke with the Tourism Chief Police officer. Everything got more complicated.But they look for a solution".
 
Just checked with our contacts in Chiang Khong, Thailand. They say still no problem for a small motorcycle group (say 4 or less) , "Non Tours", crossing into Huay Xai, Laos currently.
 
If you're planning on crossing into Laos by motorcycle in a group at the Chiang Khong, Thailand / Huay Xai, Laos, international border crossing (currently still a ferry crossing across the Mekong River) & run into problems on the Laos side, below is a list of travel agents in Chaing Khong, Thailand that might be able to help. Easy Trip is one that has been used in the past.



We're still being told that 4 bikes or less on a non-organized tour isn't a problem.





น้ำโขงแทลเวล - Namkong Travel
408 หมู่ 1 ต.เวียง อ.เชียงของ จ.เชียงราย 57140
โทร. 053 655 796
โทรสาร : 053 655 802
Mobile :081 603 3262
E-Mail : phayao98@hotmail.com
Web site : www.namkhongriverside.net


เชียงของการท่องเที่ยว - Chiangkhong Tour
357 หมู่ 1 ต.เวียง อ.เชียงของ จ.เชียงราย 57140
โทร. 053 655 381
โทรสาร : 053 655 381
Mobile Phone : 084 741 8838
E-Mail : chiangkhongtour@hotmail.com


สายนทีทัวร์ - Sainatee Tour
400 หมู่ 1 ต.เวียง อ.เชียงของ จ.เชียงราย 57140
โทร. 053 792 010
โทรสาร : 053 792 010
Mobile Phone : 081 746 6725
E-Mail : sainatee_tour@hotmail.com


แอนทัวร์ - Ann Tour
166 หมู่ 8 ถ.สายกลาง ต.เวียง อ.เชียงของ จ.เชียงราย 51740
โทร. 053 655 198
โทรสาร : 053 791 218
Mobile phone : 087 301 2404
E-Mail : anntour1@windowslive.com
Web site : www.anntour.com


เอกลักษณ์ทัวร์ - Eakaluck Tour
412 หมู่ 1 ต.เวียง อ.เชียงของ จ.เชียงราย 57140
โทร. 053 655 391
โทรสาร : 053 655 391
Mobile Phone : 086 921 4391
E-Mail : eakalucktour@hotmail.com


ล้านช้าง อีซี่ทริป - Lachang Easy Trip
63/2 หมู่ 1 ต.เวียง อ.เชียงของ จ.เชียงราย 57140
โทร. 053 655 174
โทรสาร : 053 655 174
Mobile phone : 089 635 5999
E-Mail : easytrip@discoverylaos.com
Web site : www.discoverylaos.com


โฟโต้เวิลด์ทัวร์ - Photo Tour
1/109 ม.9 ซ.พิบูลสงคราม 6 ถ.พิบูลสงคราม
ต.สวนใหญ่ อ.เมือง จ.นนทบุรี 11000
โทร. 02 966 7531-3
โทรสาร : 02 526 8894
Mobile phone : 081 835 9609
E-Mail : photo_tour@hotmail.com
Web site : www.thephototours.com


โสภาพรรณ แทลเวล - Sopaphan Travel
โทร. 053 752 555 โทรสาร : 053 752 555
Mobile phone : 081 992 9101
E-Mail : luangprabangtravel@gmail.com
Web site : www.luangprabangtravel.com



ฟีนิกส์ ทัวร์ - Phonenix Tour
406/1 หมู่ 1 ต.เวียง อ.เชียงของ จ.เชียงราย 57140
โทร. 053 655 136
โทรสาร : 053 791 310
Mobile phone : 081 162 1167


ริเวอร์โกลท์ แทลเวล - River Gold Travel
หมู่ 1 ต.เวียง อ.เชียงของ จ.เชียงราย 57140
โทร. 053 655 069
Mobile phone : 086 913 1144
ไทย-ลาว การท่องเที่ยว - Thai-Laos Travel
โทร.: 053 791 1182 โทรสาร :
 
Just received this message regarding the Nan province, Huay Khon/ Chalerm Prakiat, Thailand - Muan Nguen, Laos international border crossing, talk of 7 day prior notice needing to be given to cross with a motorcycle, cannot confirm this.



" Just talked to a big BMW rider here in Mukdahan who was not allowed to cross at Nan a few days ago. I think he said a 7 day notice was required. We will try Paxse on Phantom tomorrow. Denied at bridge here".
 
just come back from vietnam cross to loas from Nampow,easy entre laos but from thakek to nakorn phanom thai say no 2 wheel on bridge.ladies boss.no choice hv to stay one night at thakek.next morning try our luck cross from laos to thai at sakavanet mukdahhan line clear we with 15 bikes....wwe all try to help their tourism but so many funny rule to follow????
 
fooh dont realyunderstand loas loww???? still blurrr.especially cros laos through bridge??
thaks for info geng it combodia will come like this soon..
 
Burnjr

In the post just above yours they indicate people could not cross with a bike at Mukdahan over the bridge to Savannakhet so I am not sure if you can cross there. You can cross by ferry from Pakxane to Buang Khan (about 190 km north of Thakhaek on Rd 13South) or go to Pakxane and then head west to the border (the Vangtao to Chong Mek border) which is about 380 km from Thakhaek
 
Lone Rider said:
Burnjr

In the post just above yours they indicate people could not cross with a bike at Mukdahan over the bridge to Savannakhet so I am not sure if you can cross there. You can cross by ferry from Pakxane to Buang Khan (about 190 km north of Thakhaek on Rd 13South) or go to Pakxane and then head west to the border (the Vangtao to Chong Mek border) which is about 380 km from Thakhaek
Click to expand...

Sorry guys but Mac pointed out to me that I goofed up again and mixed up Pakxe with Pakxane. From Thakhek head SOUTH to Pakxe (and not Pakxane) and then west to the Vangtao/Chongmek border to Thailand.
 
We have a rider attempting to enter Laos at the Huay Khon/ Chalerm Prakiat, Nan, Thailand / M. Nguen, Laos border crossing on Friday 11th January, 2013 ( 2 days time). He will be on a Thai registered bike, which seem to have more difficulty entering Laos than western registered foreign bikes. He will inform us whether he's allowed in or not.


He has spoken to Mr. Khamdee, who is in the District Tourism Office Muan Ngeun, Laos, who has said he should be able to enter Laos at this international border crossing with a foreign registered motorcycle.


Mr. Khamdee Laos number is +856-20 5519 0586. His office is in Laos, 2km from the M. Nguen, Laos border crossing.
 
Yempaul & 3 riders with him were refused entry into Laos 2 weeks ago at the Huay Khon/ Chalerm Prakiat, Nan, Thailand / M. Nguen, Laos border crossing


Took a gamble to enter via Frienship Bridge III of Nakhon Phanom - Thakek crossing after being denied at Muen Nguen. Long story there. The officials gave the go ahead but had a change of heart. Staying away from Huay Kon in the meantime till the situations is clearer.

At FBIII was a different story, they turned us away politelyu and suggested we load our bikes on a pick up. In the meantime, he called up his boss to seek clearance for us. With a stroke of luck, we were given the go ahead but we need to move quickly. All done in 10 minutes.
Click to expand...
 
Just received some bad news regarding the Huay Khon/ Chalerm Prakiat, Nan, Thailand / M. Nguen, Laos border crossing. The rider that had planned to cross into Laos at this border crossing tomorrow has been told that it is not possible.


The rider sent copies of his passport and motorcycle registration to Mr. Khamdee, who is in the District Tourism Office Muan Ngeun, Laos, Mr. Khamdee went to the M. Nguen border and asked whether the rider would be allowed to enter Laos here and the answer was no.


So it still looks like Chiang Khong, Thailand/ Huay Xai, Laos is the safest international border crossing to get into Laos with a foreign motorcycle.
 
When we went in (and out a few days later) at the Huay Khon/ Chalerm Prakiat, Nan, Thailand / M. Nguen, Laos border crossing in late November, they had run out of green Temporary Import forms. I had them stamp a photocopy of my registration papers on the way in. They gave me some grief on the way out, but when I showed them that form, I was allowed back out of Laos.

I wonder if this is all connected? Did one of the officials end up in trouble because it was all in a mess... so he/she just make a local decision to say NO?

Is it worth writing to the Tourism Minister?
 
Don't think that is the problem as they are just not in "anticipating what is needed nor in planning" of their work. Once came there at 9 in the morning and needed a visa - sorry sir, I have first to go to my office in town as I don't have the Visa stickers to put in the passport. Of he went on his motorbike and he only came back some 45 minutes later. When Phil and I crossed into Laos a month ago or so, the Visa on Arrival guy had gone home so they had to call him so we could get a visa. That was at about 5 o'clock in the afternoon and there were still some 10-15 people coming from Thailand walking the two kilometers between the Thai and Lao border post otherwise he might have gone home again.

Guess the people in Laos (Jim and others) have contacted people in the tourism department but not sure if that will make any difference. My guess is that it has something to do with the ASEAN-Europe meeting which was held in November.
 
Lone Rider said:
Don't think that is the problem as they are just not in "anticipating what is needed nor in planning" of their work. Once came there at 9 in the morning and needed a visa - sorry sir, I have first to go to my office in town as I don't have the Visa stickers to put in the passport. Of he went on his motorbike and he only came back some 45 minutes later.
Click to expand...

Doing this crossing Bro and I went there in the middle of the day.. Did all the customs stuff but the visa guy was absent.. Went and got the customs girl, who started making phone calls but obviously wasnt getting through.. She kept this up looking more and more stressed until there was a good 10 or 15 people also waiting.. then he appeared, all dishevelled and crumpled, obviously just having been woken up and looking pissed off about it. Middle of the day.
 
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