Adventure bike choices for south east Asia

[KTMphil]

Adventure bike choices for south east Asia


There is no such thing as the perfect bike.

Everyone's needs are different to some extent, depending on what degree of difficulty they wish to take on, so there will not ever be the best compromise adventure bike available in Asia that will suit every one.




Low budget, do everything bike, with dual sport tires (Dunlop 605), the Kawasaki KLX 250 is hard to argue with at around 150,000 bht. It can do everything.

The negatives for it are that is it uncomfortable on long trips & struggles in mountain terrain loaded with gear, you may run into clutch problems, we have seen it several times.




In the same category, the new soon to be released Honda CRF 250 L will probably also be up there as one of the best value for money adventure bikes, but will have the same dis-advantages as the Kawasaki KLX 250.

On the other end of the scale is the KTM 690 R

66 HP and 142 kg dry (http://www.bikez.com/motorcycles/ktm_69 ... r_2012.php) - you will find that most of the experienced riders in the region will tell you that this is the ultimate production adventure bike for Asia, if you can swallow the 640,000 bht price tag.

The negatives for it are that for single track it could be a bit of a handful compared to a smaller bike & parts are more difficult to get.

 

[KTMphil]

Kawasaki Versys 650cc is the best value for money road touring bike in Asia at around 285,000 Thai Bht. Comfortable riding position, more torque than the ER-6, cheap parts, a great road tourer.

It almost looks like an adventure bike, but as an adventure bike (meaning it can cope with dirt trails and river crossings), it is a disaster - the exhaust is under the bike giving limited road clearance and dangers of the exhaust being ripped off. The tiny front wheel would make the bike very unmanageable in dirt conditions, so personally i think a bad adventure bike choice. A friend recently took a Kawasaki Versys to Laos and ended up mistakenly on 1,500 km of dirt roads and hated it on this bike, he confirmed that it is not an adventure bike, it's a road bike.

 

[KTMphil]

Suzuki DRZ 400 is a very interesting option. Great reliable engine that holds 2 liters of oil, much more power and torque than the KLX 250, 180km out of one tank of gas, second hand can be found for around 160,000 bht as standard.

Disadvantages - for a 400cc bike it feels kind of heavy, parts aren't readily available in Thailand.

 

[KTMphil]

Honda XR 250 is a very interesting adventure touring bike for the more adventurous. Simple as a John Deere tractor, air cooled, super reliable, later models are electric start, parts easily available, a great choice.

Dis-advantages are similar to the KLX 250, not enough power when carrying gear etc..... There is also the added problem that because they are air cooled, they run very hot and don't like the immediate cooling from river crossings. If you listen to Joe the mechanic, he will tell you that he has to rebuild the XR 250's much more often then the KLX 250's.

 

[KTMphil]

Honda XR 400 R is a real beauty, but now hard to find in good condition, production stopped in 2004. Simple, light powerful, the perfect bike for extreme remote exploring.

Disadvantages are that standard it's only kick start, which can be an issue after a dunking or a fall, turning the idle up to kick start seems to help, also getting parts can be irritating.

 

[KTMphil]

BMW 1200 GS is a terrific road tourer at around 1 million Thai Bht, the Range Rover of bikes.

Way too big for most Adventure riding in Asia to make it enjoyable and therefore too restrictive.






BMW F 800 GS is an interesting choice that can cope with medium terrain, but for the more adventurous, it's still too big and heavy making it restrictive as to where you can go.

 

[KTMphil]

Honda Africa Twin 750cc is a great value for money world tourer, that why you see so many of them passing through with their aluminum pannier boxes. One of the best engines ever made for reliability.

Again the weight and size of this beast will restrict where you want to go if you're adventurous.

 

[KTMphil]

The KTM 990 Adventure is a 100HP desert racing hooligan. With the fuel so low in the bike it has an amazing sense of stability & can eat up the KM's with ease.

Again the size and weight (200KG) makes it a restrictive choice for Asia fitting in somewhere between the BMW 1200GS and the KTM 690 R, probably similar in capabilities off road as the BMW F 800 GS.

 

[bill]

Tiger 800XC

Tiger 800XC. Built to take it.

New for 2011. Tough. Rugged. Built to last. Loves the open road, devours the rough stuff. The one bike that can do it all, Tiger 800XC sets new standards in the adventure bike sector. With its big wheels and long suspension travel, the Tiger 800XC just loves getting its claws dirty. Let the adventure begin.

http://www.triumphmotorcycles.com/motor ... iger-800xc

Looks good, never rode one. Direct competitor to BMW F800GS.
From what I've read, the BM is better offroad, the Triumph is less buzzy on the Highway.
One of these, (or a F800GS) and a nice light offroad bike would be a good combo to own imo. Unfortunately, there is no do it all bike.

 

[Mickey Magoo]

I think you've hit a Home Run with the smaller bike choices. I've owned the KLX250S, XR250, DRZ400E, and currently have a WR250F. I'm no Asia expert but it seems to me the small bikes make the most sense for a variety of reasons there. I'm assuming the KLX250S is now made in Thailand? I know the Versys is ... and what about the KLR? The KLX is slow, true, but seems reliable. Some are going to 300cc kits.

If you're including the $10,000 USD KTM 690, and $20,000 BMW GS's, then surly the less expensive (and more reliable) KLR650, DR650 and Honda XR650L deserve a mention? I have no idea if the DR650 or XR650-L are imported to Thailand .... probably not. Bit big and porky for mud and trails but generally a good do-it-all bikes and even OK two up. My own DR650 has seen 45,000 miles now and never cost me a penny (other than basic maintenance). It's been to Mexico four times and out to Colorado and up to Canada so far. But I would not one one for Thailand. I was happy on a 125 there.

I was in Thailand years ago and toured round on some sort of Honda 125cc dual sport two stroke. (MTX or something?) Great bike. I don't see these for rent any longer. Two strokes are probably banned (??) ... not a bad thing considering air quality there.

Seems lots of complaints about seats on the smaller bikes you list. Someone there should learn how to modify dirt bike type seats for comfort. It's not that hard. Use high quality foam, widen the seat and re-cover. I know after a 3 week, 3000 mile dirt ride in Baja, my XR250 seat was killing me. My DR650 has a Corbin seat and I can ride 10 hours a day, day after day.

My XR250 and my DRZ-E in the famous Baja sand washes.

My DR650 with Corbin seat. The stock DR seat, like most Dual sports, is a torture device. The Corbin transforms the bike into all day comfort.

 

[LivinLOS]

If you're including the $10,000 USD KTM 690, and $20,000 BMW GS's, then surly the less expensive (and more reliable) KLR650, DR650 and Honda XR650L deserve a mention? I have no idea if the DR650 or XR650-L are imported to Thailand .... probably not. Bit big and porky for mud and trails but generally a good do-it-all bikes and even OK two up.

I think Phils trying to cover bikes sold or readily found here.. Both the DR and XR 650's are rare as hens teeth.. Sure maybe one or two about but its not like you can say "ahh yes I will go buy.. etc" you would have to custom import it with all the issues that throws up. Even tho the DRZ and XR's are the same theres many more to be found.

I was in Thailand years ago and toured round on some sort of Honda 125cc dual sport two stroke. (MTX or something?) Great bike. I don't see these for rent any longer. Two strokes are probably banned (??) ... not a bad thing considering air quality there.

2 strokes cannot be legally registered any more but existing ones are still legal.

However the economics of renting old bikes with no parts supply chain means the KLX250 etc is far better business sense.

Seems lots of complaints about seats on the smaller bikes you list. Someone there should learn how to modify dirt bike type seats for comfort. It's not that hard. Use high quality foam, widen the seat and re-cover.

Guy in town does just that.. Many of us mod saddles or have touring saddle for longer haul.

 

[Mickey Magoo]

I think Phils trying to cover bikes sold or readily found here.. Both the DR and XR 650's are rare as hens teeth.. Sure maybe one or two about but its not like you can say "ahh yes I will go buy.. etc" you would have to custom import it with all the issues that throws up. Even tho the DRZ and XR's are the same theres many more to be found.

Are the KTM 990, R1200GS, F800GS and Africa Twin common in Thailand? Because he listed those as well. If DR's, KLR's and XR650-L's are rare then the big bikes must be like Moon Rocks!

For the level of congestion, cost of fuel, taxes, insurance, parking and narrow roads, seems the 250's are about right ... what do you think? The local population at large seem to favor scooters and 125's.

Does Yamaha import the WR250R to Thailand? It's a very expensive bike in the USA (around $6500 USD new). Good bike and better in every way than the KLX250S ... but not $3000 usd better! :eek1 I'm guessing the WR would not sell in the Asian market due to it's high price?

I'm just scouting for an upcoming trip. Trying to figure best approach to buying or renting a bike. Sounds like it's best to rent in each country individually rather than put up with the BS of bringing a rental bike across borders or having to buy/sell in each country. I have a pretty good idea about what bikes are in Thailand, but my question is ... What can you rent in Cambodia and Vietnam? And what's the best choice? Sorry if these Noob questions have been asked and answered a 1000 times!

When I was in Cambodia in the early 90's there were still Russians there ... the main market had a whole section selling Honda 90's and every part for them. The locals pulled long trailers loaded with lumber with them ... plus four or five passengers. I was there with UNICEF.

 

[LivinLOS]

I think Phils trying to cover bikes sold or readily found here.. Both the DR and XR 650's are rare as hens teeth.. Sure maybe one or two about but its not like you can say "ahh yes I will go buy.. etc" you would have to custom import it with all the issues that throws up. Even tho the DRZ and XR's are the same theres many more to be found.

Are the KTM 990, R1200GS, F800GS and Africa Twin common in Thailand? Because he listed those as well. If DR's, KLR's and XR650-L's are rare then the big bikes must be like Moon Rocks!

My point kinda was that the KTMs, Triumphs, BMW's etc are all sold, by the manufacturer with full dealer support and warrantys incountry. You can go in the dealer and ride out on a brand new fully road legal one.. Hence why they are an easy choice available here.

The Africa twin isnt (sold here legally) as Honda have been slow to the market and put plans on hold at the start of the financial crisis a couple of years back, but theres quite a few Africa twins knocking about (as are some transalps, etc etc) on the second hand market.

I have not seen one KLR or XR 650 here in 10 years, I am sure there are some, remember there was a dogged out one (XR650) for sale in Pai, but not seen one myself in that time. Seen one or two DR's over the years.

For the level of congestion, cost of fuel, taxes, insurance, parking and narrow roads, seems the 250's are about right ... what do you think? The local population at large seem to favor scooters and 125's.

Depends on ride terrain.. I think a 400 is about the best 'all rounder' but again your into grey market bikes then where the KLX is so simple with the dealer support. If riding dirt roads and not trails an XR650 would be superb. More tough to tour, but not great for any tight trails. Theres no one perfect bike but the 250s are a decent compromise.

Does Yamaha import the WR250R to Thailand? It's a very expensive bike in the USA (around $6500 USD new). Good bike and better in every way than the KLX250S ... but not $3000 usd better! :eek1 I'm guessing the WR would not sell in the Asian market due to it's high price?

Not sold directly no, grey import again.. The KLX250 is over 5k usd here even made in Thailand even with no import tax issues. I am guessing a WR, with taxes paid and a legal plate put on it, would run to over 10k USD ???

I'm just scouting for an upcoming trip. Trying to figure best approach to buying or renting a bike. Sounds like it's best to rent in each country individually rather than put up with the BS of bringing a rental bike across borders or having to buy/sell in each country. I have a pretty good idea about what bikes are in Thailand, but my question is ... What can you rent in Cambodia and Vietnam? And what's the best choice? Sorry if these Noob questions have been asked and answered a 1000 times!

Rentals, like XR250s and even 400's are available in Laos Cambo and Vietnam.. Cambodia easy to find fleets of them in Phnom Penh, Vietnam harder but Hung at Flamingo travel is a good guy to deal with and theres a couple of well known guys in Laos who have bikes for rent.

 

[KTMphil]

We were really trying to talk about the bikes we see here. As you say some of the bikes aren't readily available here, but they are the bikes we see pass through or they are bikes that people particularly want and have endeavored to bring to Asia.


Obviously there's many more, these are what we see.

 

[johnnysneds]

Its unclear whether the Multistrada is a capable off-road/adventure machine. Maybe not a GS beater but with the right tires is does have the potential, the limiting factor being devoid of a 21" front wheel. Certainly anything other than dirt nothing comes close.

 

[Mickey Magoo]

Depends on ride terrain.. I think a 400 is about the best 'all rounder' but again your into grey market bikes then where the KLX is so simple with the dealer support. If riding dirt roads and not trails an XR650 would be superb. More tough to tour, but not great for any tight trails. Theres no one perfect bike but the 250s are a decent compromise.

Rentals, like XR250s and even 400's are available in Laos Cambo and Vietnam.. Cambodia easy to find fleets of them in Phnom Penh, Vietnam harder but Hung at Flamingo travel is a good guy to deal with and theres a couple of well known guys in Laos who have bikes for rent.

Thanks for the help and info, I'll be making notes of all that!

 

[LivinLOS]

I will be walking past the bike rentals in Phnom Penh by the weekend, will grab a card of one I have used who seemed decent enough guy. Helped us make some travel arrangements and moving a sick bike etc.

 

[madjbs]

An overlooked bike I think, but it shouldn't be because it is a good all rounder for the north.

BMW G650gs

Good road manners, easy to ride in town and will cope with easy off road. Also relatively well priced for a BMW at about 500-600kTHB

Not the fastest of bikes or the best off road but certainly a good all rounder. The Versys is better value at half the price but it's not a BMW.

 

[Mickey Magoo]

I don't know what BMW dealers in Thailand are charging for the G650 ... but your price quote of 500K to 600K Baht works out to between $16,000 to $20,000 USD. Here in the USA, the G650GS MSRP is listed by BMW at $7,900 USD.
http://www.bmwmotorcycles.com/us/en/ind ... ain_1.html
Most are spending about $11,000 USD on the road with bags and some extras.

The new BMW G650 Sertao will also be coming along this year and offers more suspension travel and some other upgrades.
http://www.bmwmotorcycles.com/us/en/ind ... &notrack=1
These bikes have some serious ongoing problems left over from the previous F650's. Hopefully moving production to the Loncin factory in China will sort out some of the poor quality,repeating failures and supplier problems from the F650's. Shockingly, even new owners of these bikes are still having the Showa forks break clean off the bike ... for no reason. This was well documented on the old F650. Most thought BMW fixed the problem. Lots on this over on ADV rider or Chain Gang forums.

But it's obvious to anyone with Enduro, motocross or dirt riding experience by just looking at the G650/F650 that those forks are just TOO SMALL for a 476 lbs. bike.
My Suzuki DR650 is almost 100 lbs. lighter and has 42mm KYB forks ... and I've never heard even one report of them breaking.

In the showroom the G650 is impressive. Sit on it! It's nice and comfy and low for shorter riders. Those who long to join the prestigious Blue Rondel club and want to enjoy the perceived cache' that comes with paying a PREMIUM to join this exclusive Club, will be happy. Or will they? :
Or ... one could just get real and ride something that fits the situation.

 

[madjbs]

The G650 Sertao looks cool!

The F650 forks only had problems up till October 2002 and even then there were only a handful of cases out of the thousands sold. Only one report of failure on the G650 and that was a 2012 model, which has different forks to previous years. I am sure BMW will sort it if it's a problem.

one could just get real and ride something that fits the situation.

A G650 is a more suitable all around bike than a DR650 in my opinion.

 

[KTMphil]

I would totally agree with you apart from the cast wheels. Those wheels will be an adventure riders night mare.

- dinged rims on big rocks (unavoidable)

- bent rims from ruts

- deformed rims from jumps




- Those wheels are just asking for problems

An overlooked bike I think, but it shouldn't be because it is a good all rounder for the north.

BMW G650gs

Good road manners, easy to ride in town and will cope with easy off road. Also relatively well priced for a BMW at about 500-600kTHB

Not the fastest of bikes or the best off road but certainly a good all rounder. The Versys is better value at half the price but it's not a BMW.

 

[bill]

I was in Phnom Penh last week so did the rounds of a few bike shops to see what was on offer.
My main interest was in large adventure tourers and lightweight offroad bikes.

Flying Bikes had hardly anything in those categories. Shop was full of Harleys, Triumphs, and Japanese Harley copies.
Mostly US imports. I'd be checking the VIN numbers online to see if they were insurance writeoffs.

Vay across the road had a few XR250's but nothing else of much interest.

Luckylucky (near central market) had several Japan import DRZ's for around $4500. They looked ok but I've already got two.
They also had a coupla DR650's ,one at Central market shop and another at Russian market shop on street 432.
I think these were around $4.5k

At Lucky's Russian Market shop they had a new in Cambodia African Twin, asking $5k .
It was a 1995 model, a bit beat up looking, with around 27000km showing on the clock. Motor ran a bit rough and I suspect the 27000km reading is second time round. It was just out of the box so expect this will be detailed and looking like new in a week or two.

Across the road were two 2007 WR250F's, US imports, asking $6800ea.
Both bikes had been very well cleaned up/detailed to look like new to the untrained eye. Closer inspection revealed small dings in the lower fork tubes, swingarm, and skid plate from rocks etc plus wear marks from boots above the footpegs. We started one, warmed it up, but it bogged/stalled when given a quick blip of the throttle. Bit a of jetting issue, at least. Anyone's guess how much work the bikes had really done.

All in all, a pretty uninspiring and dodgy lineup.

I note you now have a forum member that imports new/low hour dirtbikes at good prices. If I lived in Thailand I'd be closely looking at that route.

 

[KTMphil]

I

I note you now have a forum member that imports new/low hour dirtbikes at good prices. If I lived in Thailand I'd be closely looking at the route.

Bill can't you buy it here a ride it into Cambo at Poi Pet on a Thai reg?

 

[Mickey Magoo]

I would totally agree with you apart from the cast wheels. Those wheels will be an adventure riders night mare.
- dinged rims on big rocks (unavoidable)
- bent rims from ruts
- deformed rims from jumps
- Those wheels are just asking for problems

Not all cast wheels are created equal.
I've been with KTM and BMW GS guys riding in Baja who all had very serious problems with dented wheels. I've also seen dirt bike guys with Exel wheels have problems too ... and i've dented several wheels myself on dirt and street bikes.

But remember BMW typically use Behr or Akront wheels. Soft as butter. Perhaps these latest wheels will be stronger? or from a different company? I believe now KTM use Excel exclusively. Much stronger.

My 2002 DL1000 V-Strom is certainly not a Baja bike. But mine did three trips there. I hit stuff so hard (not on purpose) I thought I'd broken the bike in two.
I did this several times over my trips and finally did dent both rims. But no worries ... I just rode on. The dents were minor and NO cracks. For the most part I was able to ride at 50 to 70 MPH on rocky Baja Pistes and if careful never have a problem. I would occasionally hit a nasty embedded rock and get jolted awake. But the Monster DID wheels on the Vstrom handled it all. They are HELLA strong. As strong as any spoked wheel I've ever used.

So not all cast wheels are strong ... some certainly ARE. Very much a surprise to me!

BMW F800GS wheel in Tunisia at Press launch.

V-Strom wheel ... straightened for $100 usd.

Death Valley ... en route to Baja, 2002.

 

[Mickey Magoo]

The G650 Sertao looks cool!
The F650 forks only had problems up till October 2002 and even then there were only a handful of cases out of the thousands sold. Only one report of failure on the G650 and that was a 2012 model, which has different forks to previous years. I am sure BMW will sort it if it's a problem.

A G650 is a more suitable all around bike than a DR650 in my opinion.

There is more to this if you care to do the research.

In what way do you feel the G650 is more "suitable"? Have you owned or ridden a well set up DR650 for any distance? (post 1996)
The DR650 is not imported to most of Europe and hasn't been since 1996. Some Grey market bikes in Germany and elsewhere, but not many. NONE in the UK.
Oz and N.Z. get them however. I've ridden the F650GS Dakar ... back to back with the DR650, riding both on and off road. The DR compares very favorably and easily wins off road. The F650 is the fuel economy king and has better brakes ... but off road ABS can be a curse.

I was quite surprised that my DR650 stayed right with the more powerful F650 Dakar right up to 100 mph. I guess that 70 lbs. lighter weight makes a difference?
The G650 weighs about 20 lbs. more.

 

[KTMphil]

If I had to pick a used bike to ride around the world my first choice would be a 2004-2007 BMW F 650 gs (or dakar with the longer forks)


- almost 30km to 1 liter of fuel

- super reliable proven Rotax engine

- simple

- one of the most comfortable bikes i have ever ridden

- can handle all terrain

- parts easy to source

-spoked wheels ! 8-)



Second choice would be a Honda Africa Twin

The G650 Sertao looks cool!

The F650 forks only had problems up till October 2002 and even then there were only a handful of cases out of the thousands sold. Only one report of failure on the G650 and that was a 2012 model, which has different forks to previous years. I am sure BMW will sort it if it's a problem.

one could just get real and ride something that fits the situation.

A G650 is a more suitable all around bike than a DR650 in my opinion.

 

[KTMphil]

With this all you need is a new 21" rim that in an emergency could be jury rigged from most 21" rims

 

[madjbs]

In what way do you feel the G650 is more "suitable"?

G650 is a lot smoother, more powerful, better handling on road, easier in the city, more comfy, has ABS, better lights etc.. The only area the DR wins on is off road, and for an all round bike that is not where it spends most of its time.

 

[Mickey Magoo]

If I had to pick a used bike to ride around the world my first choice would be a 2004-2007 BMW F 650 gs (or dakar with the longer forks)
- almost 30km to 1 liter of fuel
- super reliable proven Rotax engine
- simple
- one of the most comfortable bikes i have ever ridden
- can handle all terrain
- parts easy to source
-spoked wheels ! 8-)
Second choice would be a Honda Africa Twin

I've been following RTW ride reports since about 1997 on HUBB, ADV Rider and various list serve forums. The F650/F650GS Dakar have a less than stellar reliability record on the road. To compare to the DR650, read Jedimaster's reports on ADV Rider. He started RTW on a F650 ... switched to a DR650. Great photos and reports.
http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=578882
http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=669987

There are links to many other reports on the F650 where problems have cropped up more than you would expect. So what goes wrong?
Lets' use your list above as a guide:

The basic Rotax motor is a good one, granted ... but it's got a few weak and repeatedly problematic areas: Water pump seals or pump failures can happen and if the rider misses it, it can cost him the motor or a blown head gasket. Wheel bearings: The F650's are notorious for failed wheel bearings. Batteries: They use a non sealed battery which can boil out electrolyte and cook. The charging system over charges on many. Broken sub frames, failed rear shocks and shock mount bolts. Less common but happens, especially to those carrying big loads ... like for RTW.

Simple? Can you diagnose an F.I. or ABS fault code on the side of the road in Bolivia? Have you seen the wiring diagram or looked under the tank at all the electronics?
It's FAR from simple, IMHO.

Comfortable ... yes indeed. I've ridden the Dakars several times, swapping with my Dakar riding buddy and my DR650.

We rode around the Moab, Utah area for a week, exploring lots. I got to ride the Dakar bike quite a bit.

All terrain? Really? Some might dispute that. :? I found the F650 Dakar a bit ponderous and unwieldy in sand or serious rocks at slow speeds. My DR650 is MUCH more reassuring. (to me) My buddy did fine on his bike and kept up with me pretty good. But he's 20 years younger and more fit. :d

Easy as long as you can get to a capital city. The big four Japanese brands have roughly 10 times more dealers world wide than BMW. Example: Suzuki have nearly 2000 dealers just in the USA alone. BMW have maybe 50 nationwide. Many countries have just ONE BMW dealer, but will have dozens of Japanese dealer throughout the nation.

Spoked Wheels: Plenty of guys have done RTW on the DL650 V-Strom. I never heard of any having broken wheel problems. Spoked wheels are nice but the Vstrom has cast and are tubeless. Makes flat repairs a whole lot easier. Plug and Go!

The Africa Twin is a legendary bike, but is clearly 1980's technology. I tried one out for half a day while living in Oxford, UK. I was not impressed. The Suzuki Wee Strom (DL650) is a much better bike in so many ways than the A.T. The A.T. was great in the 80's and 90's ... but time (and technology) marches on!!

With this all you need is a new 21" rim that in an emergency could be jury rigged from most 21" rims

Do you pack a spare rim in your luggage when on the road? Obviously, it's repairable. On this BMW press event they had a whole BMW Semi there with tons of spares and spare bikes and four or five mechanics to keep things going. At least three or four guys Taco'd wheels like the one shown. It's just a comment on BMW wheel quality. Most serious F800GS riders have swapped out to stronger wheels.

 

[Mickey Magoo]

G650 is a lot smoother, more powerful, better handling on road, easier in the city, more comfy, has ABS, better lights etc.. The only area the DR wins on is off road, and for an all round bike that is not where it spends most of its time.

So you have ridden the DR650 back to back with the G650 or F650GS? Or owned a DR650? I've not ridden the G650 but have spent lots of time on the F650 Dakar and other F650's going back to the Funduro in 1995. Were you riding bikes then? :G I know this motorcycle pretty well.

On the road the F650 Dakar was a little smoother, but not much. A well set up DR650 is pretty smooth too with it's double counterbalancer system, rubber isolated foot pegs and rubber isolated handlebars. But it needs a few things to match the comfort of the F650 or G650's. Mine has a Corbin seat and suspension work. I've done many 400 mile days, back to back. Longest day is 1000 miles. Many many DR650 riders with similar mods have done the same.

Handling on both bikes is good, IMO, but the additional weight of the G bike puts it at a distinct disadvantage and loses it's HP advantage ... it is no faster than the DR650. (see above post) ABS is nice and the BMW brakes are stronger than the DR650. Advantage BMW. For a commuter this is a win for BMW. For a dual sport or adventure bike, some may prefer to live without ABS and the complexity and costs it adds. (have you priced the BMW ABS Accumulator unit? :eek1)
I have a $23 HID light on my bike. No problem with lights ... and draws less voltage too.

The DR650 wins in many areas, most are objective facts.
DR650 Wins:
Cheaper to buy (about $5000 USD brand new ... about $2000 to $4000 for nice used ones)
Cheaper to maintain and self servicing. I've never been to a Suzuki dealer for service and few owners ever go.
Can BMW owners say this?

Simple: most servicing can be done in your garage or on the side of the road. BMW often requires proprietary dealer computers to diagnose F.I. or ABS problems.

More reliable: the lists of happy high mileage owners continues to grow. Dozens of successful ride reports prove the long range reliability of the DR650.
This bike was late coming forward. Now it's very popular ... and there is a reason. Is it perfect? No, it's got a few faults ... but very few.
BMW F650 failures could fill volumes. Just start looking, see what you find.
DR650 Old tech? Perhaps ... but somehow it just works. Amazingly capable bike and nearly unbreakable.

Stronger: no broken sub frames, forks, shocks or shock mounting bolts. Load the DR650 up heavy. No problems. Super strong.

Lighter; about 70 lbs. lighter than the F650, and about 100 lbs. lighter than the new G650. This is significant and effectively eliminates any HP advantage the BMW has.

OFF Road: The above mentioned weight advantage says it all. The DR650 needs better suspension to really shine off road. But then ... so does the BMW.
I have Race Tech emulators and heavier springs up front and and a used Ohlins shock out back. Major transformation for not much money.

If one only rides paved roads then the above is irrelevant. But in Asia I'm thinking there is lots of unpaved areas. And one could do a RTW ride and stay mostly to paved roads but in places you have no choice and if you ignore and avoid off road sections you'll be missing some amazing parts of the world. Either bike is capable with a good rider, but the DR650 has an advantage with less weight. The new G bike has a 19" front wheel. Replacement tires can be hard to find in the 19" size in places and have an obvious disadvantage in sand or technical riding vs. a 21" ... it just works better.

Fuel: The DR650 will run fine on the lowest octane crap fuel in the world. I know, I've done it. Cleaning filters takes ten minutes. Some Fuel Injected BMW's have problems with low octane or contaminated fuel. Fuel pumps can be damaged and stop the show. On some BMW's you can re-program the ECU to run on lower octane fuel. Not sure about the G650. But getting to the fuel pump to clean or repair it ... is a bitch.


BMW Wins:
Better re-sale value
Better fuel economy (60 to 70 mpg)
F.I. means smoother running, easier starting at very high altitude. This really only comes into play above about 4500 meters. All motors lose power at altitude, so F.I. is not an advantage in this regard.
Electrical Power output: The BMW puts out lots more juice than the DR650. The DR only puts out 200 watts. I believe the F and G model BMW's put out over 400 watts.
(It's too bad so many F650 riders end up with dead batteries ... and endemic problem on this bike)
BMW 3 year warranty. (Suzuki only gives one year ... but extended Suzuki factory warranty available for a few hundred dollars)
Better Brakes on the BMW. The DR needs a larger rotor and Brembo caliper and master cylinder. Huge improvement.

 

[madjbs]

Are you trying to sell a DR650?

Nobody is saying they are not a good bike but for most people a F650 or G650 is still a better all round bike in my oppinion. It doesn't matter anyhow because as already mentioned, you can't buy a DR650 here.....

Are you planning to ride in S.E Asia sometime soon? What are you going to buy/rent?

 

[bill]

I

I note you now have a forum member that imports new/low hour dirtbikes at good prices. If I lived in Thailand I'd be closely looking at the route.

Bill can't you buy it here a ride it into Cambo at Poi Pet on a Thai reg?

Phil
Yes, that's possible, but whether its viable depends on the cost of Thai reg, given I eventually have to pay import tax again in Cambo.

 

[KTMphil]

I

I note you now have a forum member that imports new/low hour dirtbikes at good prices. If I lived in Thailand I'd be closely looking at the route.

Bill can't you buy it here a ride it into Cambo at Poi Pet on a Thai reg?

Phil
Yes, that's possible, but whether its viable depends on the cost of Thai reg, given I eventually have to pay import tax again in Cambo.

I thought the questionable Cambo reg were easy to come by? Can't you just ride it in through Poi Pet and purchase one of those?

 

[LivinLOS]

Also as there's no effective tracking on the cambo side why not just leave it Thai ??

The only obvious problem being coming back into Thai after longer than the temp export declaration.

 

[Mickey Magoo]

Are you trying to sell a DR650?
Nobody is saying they are not a good bike but for most people a F650 or G650 is still a better all round bike in my oppinion. It doesn't matter anyhow because as already mentioned, you can't buy a DR650 here.....

: No need to sell the DR650 ... it sells itself. Sorry for the long OT rants ... but I feel compelled to respond to broad and general unsubstantiated statements praising BMW and perpetuating long dispelled myths ... and in the same breath dismissing the DR650 like it's some cheap, overweight Chinese copy.

Don't get me wrong ... there are thousands of happy BMW F650/G650 owners out there. Probably only 20% have had the kinds of problems listed ... but in the modern production world that is a big number... and travelers seem to be top of the list of those with problems. Now why is that?

"Most people"? How many people in any Asian country can afford a $8,000 or $10,000 usd 650cc BMW? I think you're looking at One Percenter's on that one. Of course wealthy X-Pats make up their own category. In the USA, BMW represent 2 to 3% of annual MC sales. Been this way for about 20 years. Suzuki has sold ten times as many DR650 as BMW have sold F650's or G650's.

Are you planning to ride in S.E Asia sometime soon? What are you going to buy/rent?

I'm researching doing a trip and bikes. Haven't figured out the buy or rent conundrum quite yet. Very little on this forum regards actual nuts and bolts info of crossing borders, rented bikes or buying a bike or re-selling a bike. Some "Sticky" threads would be helpful. But I also realize this site is not a tourist's travel forum, but rather one for X pats living over there. All good. I imagine all the Noob questions get tiresome for the old hands who've been there a while.

 

[KTMphil]

[ Do you pack a spare rim in your luggage when on the road?

If you're that unlucky, Fed Ex for 200 bucks isnt a problem and you have a new rim in 3 days if you're in Timbuktoo

 

[madjbs]

"Most people"? How many people in any Asian country can afford a $8,000 or $10,000 usd 650cc BMW? I think you're looking at One Percenter's on that one. Of course wealthy X-Pats make up their own category.

We are not talking about the general population and 125cc scooters, but people who buy and ride big bikes here in Thailand for fun, Thais and expats. Most people in that group would be better off with a G650, you can't even get a DR here unless you import one. Don't make the incorrect assumption that expats make up the majority of these people, there are many wealthy middle and upper class Thais who like riding big bikes as well. As a matter of fact, Thais are very brand concious and big BMWs are very popular with them. As are BMW cars and Mercedes.

In the USA, BMW represent 2 to 3% of annual MC sales. Been this way for about 20 years. Suzuki has sold ten times as many DR650 as BMW have sold F650's or G650's.

Well this is not the USA. Suzuki doesn't even sell any bikes here apart from the Hayabusa and GSX1000 (both very popular with Thai riders and priced $25000+).

Remember this thread is about adventure bikes for South East Asia...

I imagine all the Noob questions get tiresome for the old hands who've been there a while.

Unless I am mistaken you haven't asked in any of the forums about those issues? I am sure if you did, people would be more than happy to give you some advice.

 

[LivinLOS]

[ Do you pack a spare rim in your luggage when on the road?

If you're that unlucky, Fed Ex for 200 bucks isnt a problem and you have a new rim in 3 days if you're in Timbuktoo

Your FedEx seems to operate 3 or 4 times faster than mine